As a reward for their first go at an aftermarket hub, ENVE came home from Eurobike with a Design and Innovation Award. But as they often say, while they were good, ENVE thought those hubs could be even better. Which brings us to the newest version, the Carbon Road Hub 2. Using the first iteration as a starting point, the new hubs offer better performance as a whole, from the bearings to the freehub to the flanges.

The US-made full carbon hub shell with molded spoke holes was a big part of what won ENVE the Design Award, so it’s no big surprise to see those features carry through. But the shell has been further optimized for even better performance. By reworking the flange geometry and design, the second generation hubs offer a stiffer rear wheel, better spoke pull through values, and three times the hub flange and spoke fatigue life than the originals.

ENVE carbon fiber hubs are made in ogden utah usa

Why change a good thing?

The original design used DT Swiss 180 internals, so it modeled its flange width and size after those hubs. They did this so that performance would be predictable, since the forces acting on the internals would be the same as what’s been proven for years on the 180s.

The new hubs, however, take advantage of parent company Mavic’s manufacturing capabilities, which opened the door to a completely proprietary, purpose built solution. Inside is an exclusive-to-ENVE bearing, axle and freehub body arrangement using Mavic’s top-of-the-line ID 360 ratchet ring 40-tooth, 9º engagement mech. ENVE’s Jake Pantone tells us the ratchet mechanism is the only parts these hubs share with Mavic’s hubs, the rest is their design, made in Europe by Mavic’s facility.

With new internals, they were free to maximize the outer performance however they wanted, then build the internals to match. So, compared to the original rear hub’s 45mm flange diameter, these push it to 55mm, and they get slightly wider spacing. The result is better spoke triangulation, which results in a wheel that’s both laterally and torsionally stiffer.

ENVE Carbon Hub v2 is lighter stiffer and rolls smoother

Pantone says the reduced torsional flex not only and improved torque and power transfer, but also reduces brake rub. He said that, because their brake tracks are finished for higher friction, that any rubbing can be audibly annoying, so fixing this wasn’t just a performance thing, but a user experience thing.

The process let them rethink the assembly of the hubs, too. The bearings are kept in adjustment over the long term thanks to their Perfect Preload system. By using a tuned wave washer between the bearings and a snap ring on the axle, the system maintains ideal preload on the bearings but never requires adjustment from the user.

Second generation ENVE carbon fiber road bike hubs

 

And those bearings have been improved, too, but maybe not how you would expect. Rather than the ceramic bearings of the original, ENVE has switched to high quality stainless steel sealed cartridge bearings. They say the reasoning is that while the ceramic bearings offer great performance initially, they don’t offer the long term durability of their stainless counterparts.

 

ENVE Carbon Road Hubs keep spinning w/ improved bearings, hub shell, & more ENVE Carbon Road Hubs keep spinning w/ improved bearings, hub shell, & more

Overall, the hubs are somehow even lighter at 70g for the front and 185g for the rear, and are available only for rim brake road bikes. Hubs are available separately with the 20h front selling for $400, and the 24h rear priced at $600 with your choice of freehub type (Shimano, SRAM XD or Campagnolo)…which is on par with what ceramic bearing-equipped DT 180s retail for. They’ll also be available as a complete wheel build with ENVE rims for $3,000…which is a $500 drop from the original price with their first gen carbon hubs.

What about disc brakes?

They’re working on it. Pantone told us it’s more challenging than you’d think to design something that offers a compelling benefit over what’s currently out there. With the standard rim brake hubs, they knew what they could to to improve them. These carbon hub shells are made in-house at their Ogden, Utah, headquarters and factory, then assembled with the internals from Europe. So there’s a lot of R&D costs followed by tooling costs, which means, for them, there needs to be a real reason to make it. But it’s on their roadmap, which would mean thru axle designs, too.

ENVE.com

57 COMMENTS

  1. LOL – the first generation were horrible. I weigh about 135 and had a set up built up on 2.2 sby one of San Diego’s most respected wheel builders. I broke six spokes before throwing in the towel and going to DT 180s. We tried various things like going radial on the front to no avail. They looked cool but total fail.

    • All you’ve described here with the spoke fail and “going radial on the front to no avail” is that you found a charlatan for a wheel builder, or you’re really bad at telling stories. Nowhere in your tirade do you even refer to anything wrong with the hubs. Spokes breaking is a build problem, not a hub problem. Follow?

      • Calling his comment a tirade is really a bit much – a bit of a ‘straw man fallacy’. Yours, however, is much closer. Follow?
        ti·rade
        /ˈtīˌrād/
        noun
        a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.
        “a tirade of abuse”
        synonyms: diatribe, harangue, rant, onslaught, attack, polemic, denunciation, broadside, fulmination, condemnation, censure, invective, criticism, tongue-lashing;

      • Not true. I had many wheels built by a particular building a long time back, and never had problems except for one set – built on old Campagnolo record hubs (back in ’89). Rear wheel started eating spokes within 3 rides. Total POS. Dumped those hubs and never had a problem again.

      • You’re really good at the internet, aren’t you? The wide flange was probably the problem along with the difficulties fitting the carbon shell accurately over the internals.. If you find someone honest at Enve, you’d know that they warrantied tons of them and stopped distributing them. Follow?

  2. Are these only meant for materialistic people that want everything on their bike to say Enve? I don’t get why someone would buy these over a $400 set of Tune hubs that are the same weight, or Extralites that are 40% lighter while still half the price. I guess people will buy anything that says Enve on it.

  3. Really nice looking hubs. I’d buy them if I was in that income bracket, but I’m not so for me something like Shimano Ultegra provide great price/value ratio for the poor man.

  4. I have a set of the first-gens and have about two years on them now and probably 15,000-18,000 miles on them. I weight 165-175lbs. After the first year I did need to replace the freehub rear bearings but everything else has been fine. ENVE support is always excellent and they sent me a new freehub as a replacement. The wheels and hubs get ridden year round in all types of weather with a lot of miles in the mountains. I have several sets of ENVE wheels and have had great luck with all of them.

  5. press release talking about the internals of the hub but never shows the internals of the hub, what a miss. How about a cut away of previous and this version, or an exploded diagram.

  6. Because the part of the Mavic wheel system wheels I have always wanted to get all by itself is the hub…

    Seems hardly an improvement to move from DT internals – among the most reliable and durable (and easily serviceable) in existence to frankly literally anything else, but especially Mavic…

    • @MaraudingWalrus – Chad from Mavic here. It’s sad to see how critical you are when, I assume, you have not spent any time with our new hubs. The ID360 system and QRM AutoFit are impressive bits of development and our new hubs have proven to be incredibly reliable, serviceable and perform better than many other aftermarket options. Before you criticise about something as harshly as you have … you should be sure you are experienced with and knowledgeable about what you’re speaking to.

      Further, these Enve hubs might borrow some tech and development from Mavic but they are truly Enve through and through. Subtle evolution of certain technologies along with an impressive weight make these a great example of what Enve stands for … the F1 of cycling products.

      To those commenting on the price – don’t buy them. And…please don’t then turn around and complain about how expensive they are. It’s not your place to judge what people spend on things they like / want and these hubs don’t follow a different model in terms of markup. They are expensive to make so they are expensive to own … it’s that simple.

      This is a bit of a rant, but I am simply tired of the endless drivel and whining on Bike Rumor posts. This one is yet another example. The industry is working hard to develop products that are interesting, inspiring and bring something positive to your riding experience(s). When we constantly have to read and respond to nonsense it casts a sad light on what “passionate” cyclists choose to spend their time doing.

      • Chad – you’re absolutely right. I haven’t spent any time with new Mavic hubs. And it’s because of bad experiences with personal wheels failing at hubs, and bunches of failed hubs worked with from behind the counter of shops – and a general lack of support and complete inability to get parts to fix.

        I most often have been only able to get any random person’s wheel back working by scavenging parts from someone else’s random wheel they abandoned because some other part failed on theirs.

        I certainly appreciate the time to respond. And I also understand how frustrating it must be on your end if the product is good – which as I say, I have no experience with the current version of because of bad experiences with the past version – to see jackwagons like me spracking off on their own personal diatribes against whatever a new product is because some previous permutation burned them and they won’t hear anything about the new improved widget.

        Certainly, lots of people in the inside of the industry were on the shop end of the equation at one point, and understand the frustration of the situation of “buying in” on what a sales rep shows them when showing off a new hot product – only later to be left feeling like they’ve been sold a false bill of goods (that they’ve in turn resold to their customers and clients) when none of the promised benefits materialize and the shop is left holding the bag on a customer’s wheel that’s failed. And then the next time that rep who is supposed to be able to help with some of these issues shows up, they’re slinging the competitor to the first product.

        That said I haven’t had any experience with anything from Mavic on my personal bikes in the last maybe three years, but have built up several sets of the Open Pro UST rims, and those truly are my favorite rim to build with (as an aside, where’s the Exalith version?).

        I’ve also had bad experiences with Enve – quite a few in the past couple years – and have a bad taste in my mouth with that brand as a result. Bad experiences with rims I’ve built up for customers, complete wheels, and other components ordered. The pairing of Enve w/ Mavic got me a little twitchy and I was harsh with criticism about a product that I haven’t seen, and likely will never see.

        On the positive side, the improvements on hub dimensions should yield real benefits to built wheels. What does Virtual 3-cross mean? Is that in reference to the non-uniformity of the placing of spoke holes meaning that a spoke that’s crossing two other spokes is at the same angle as if it were 3-cross? The fact that these use standard J-Bend spokes eliminates one of my biggest issue with Mavic wheels.

        As for the price – people are always going to complain about that. People see the price of a set of rims on Aliexpress and assume that the price of those is the cost of a set of Enve rims and that the rest is all straight profit for Enve. And while an individual rim from Enve may only cost a tiny fraction of its price in terms of raw material price, development, testing, setup costs, paying living wages for labor in a NATO country all adds to the cost.

        I do legitimately, earnestly appreciate the time to respond to a – baseless is the wrong word, but certainly off base – harsh comment from a random person on the internet who claims to be a Walrus.

        • This is great context .. thank you for adding it and I appreciate the time you took to do so. It sounds like you’re at a shop … drop me a line, I’d be happy to get you some wheels to test so you can experience the new product first hand. chad.moore@mavic.com

      • Chad – Get over it. This is the internet. People have opinions. Guess, what? You haven’t paid your dues and earned a solid, long lasting reputation like DT Swiss or others have. Maybe one day that will change, but just because some engineer somewhere says that the new Mavic hubs are stellar doesn’t mean people should automatically take a flyer on them. And it DEFINITELY doesn’t mean peoples’ reactions should be sensored in an effort to keep negativity at bay. This is business. If you don’t want to be scoffed at, then come harder with better products at more compelling prices. End of story.

        • I’m (more or less) with you, Aaron. Mavic has a reputation for great rims but crummy hubs. If a company has a bad rap and people criticize it, it might be because it’s true. I do think that BR has some really nasty commenters, though, and the criticism is often too harsh and there are tons of armchair engineers who shoot down anything new or different. That situation could easily change with the addition of a thumbs up/ down rating scheme like everyone else uses!

          • @Tim – again, I am not at all challenging anyone’s opinions about our past products. To do that would be pointless … an experience is an experience and I’m not here to try to fix any of that. My mission is to say that we’re aware of the past and have spent the last years evolving, listening and making changes. We aren’t the only ones on the receiving end of constant criticism for things that are in our past – the issue is that constantly droning on and on about things that are not even issues any longer. When do we get another chance to change the opinion of those who feel wronged? If the posts on BikeRumor are any indication it would be never … which isn’t productive.

            I’m simply asking for a call to action to simmer down when it comes to the harsh, sometimes ill-informed and malicious commenting and let’s try to get to a place where we have positive conversations about the good and bad that are productive for everyone involved.

            • Chad – Fair enough. In a perfect world, people would be as constructive as possible. As a marketer myself, this would be my recommendation to facilitate such responses:

              Don’t put out only puffy press releases when you’ve got a cloudy history. Admit your failures. Openly. Contrast the faults of your previous products with the positive changes of your new ones: side by side, no marketing jargon, no baseless claims. Be as transparent as possible. Commit to exceptional service and after-sale support. And do it. If you push the honest truth about your products long enough and the products back it up, people will be reasonable. It just takes time and commitment.

              • Look at SRAM (esp. in the area of brakes) and Crank Bros., both have been making (it seems to me) decent stuff for awhile, yet there is still a large contingent of people who won’t buy because of the past and who keep complaining about reliability when it seems it’s no longer an issue with newer products.

        • @Aaron – sorry Aaron, but I’m not going to get over it. I’m not the only one complaining about the endless negativity on Bike Rumor along with the faceless drivel that people paste in the comments section. Most of it is useless and there needs to be a point where enough is enough. It is bad enough that BikeRumor has the reputation for the place where the trolls go and that is an unfortunate position for Tyler and his crew to be in. There isn’t another (big) cycling channel where this happens and it is partially because the readers of those channels don’t let it happen. It’s time for the frequent posters here to start policing their own community in order to have a place that is productive and valuable for everyone involved.

          I have no issue with constructive comments (see my reply below), even when they aren’t so good for us. Those sort of discussions are productive and real. Just whining about how stupid the price is on a product is just pointless and counterproductive.

          Further, I’m not sure what you mean by saying we haven’t paid our dues. Regardless of what you think about our ITS-4 hubs or any other bad experience you’ve had with one of our products … we’ve been around for 130 years and have paved the way for countless brands that exist along with innovation that has spawned many new trends that are now the norm. So, to say the DT Swiss (who make very nice products) has more credibility than we do is simply false.

          Lastly, when did I say that you should blindly trust some engineer somewhere? My comment on the quality of our new hubs comes from the results of in-house testing, field testing, consumer return / service rates compared to previous iterations, dealer feedback and sports marketing validation / feedback. I’d argue that we have the most stringent product testing on the market … and while we might not always get it right … there’s a reason why there are so many of our wheels that are 10+ years old still going strong.

          If you have some real issues you’d like to discuss / address … drop me a line and we can chat it out … chad.moore@mavic.com

      • Thank you Chad. My thoughts exactly, keep up the good work Mavic and Enve, with out brands like yours who would the Chinese rip off? Who would the struggling bike house brands copy (your) products (and others) and force their dealer base to buy knee deep in to appease P&A dollars? 23 years I have been in this industry and have seen brands grow and fail…some have come out stronger and others are no where to be found. EVERY brand out their has had and continues to have struggles but hand out some grace for once and see the real passion in what brands are doing to bring enjoyment to our sport.

      • Chad, I’ve only just skimmed this article, but I didn’t see the word “gravel” anywhere. Will these hubs work on gravel?

  7. Very nice looking that’s for sure plus biger flange diameter and that’s it for me. Enve for as long as I can remeber which is from their start has been putting lots of effort and money in marketing. Eye catching logo everywhere and the fact that Chris King hubs helped them to survive while back in time. Without Chris King they would have been existed long time ago. I’ve had lots of issues with their carbon rims regardless whether there were first generation or further incarnations. All suffered from overhitting. All researches over last decade at least were showing that good quality ceramic bearings were far better and longer lasting then their cheaper stainless steel brothers. Now we can see reverse of all these researches and trends?? Interesting approach. Personally I would never spend any money on Enve, their products are nothing special or any better then other good brands. Fact that they have Chris King cooperation attracts people to buy them. I would definitely choose DT Swiss hubs or Chris King and find good rims to build my won wheels myself and more likely still at half price of Enve set. Happy cycling everyone.

    • I thought Envy WAS a ‘marketing” company (thus the name – duh). Have yet to see a product they have made that did not have a current competitor as good (or better) for a lower (or much lower) price.

      Then again, I paid for Campagnolo Record 12…..

  8. This is straight to Chad@Mavic – If you want better shop cred there are a couple things that take the sting away:

    -Have spare parts available at launch
    -Make ordering/replacing said parts painless
    -Provide schematics in an intuitive format that doesn’t require BS authentication
    -Don’t act like your sh#t don’t stank–if we call with issues, don’t fight it. Give support happily and in a timely fashion.

    Because they’ve failed at some of these, I’m happy to tell customers to kick SRAM to the curb. If shop guys get knowledgeable and pleasant CS/tech reps, they’re MUCH more likely to recommend your product again.
    Mavic wheel systems are a headache–hopefully it won’t bite ENVE.

    • Thanks Shafty … your post is spot on.

      We won’t hide behind any excuses and say that the points you bring up haven’t been big issues for us. In fact, you’ve hit on nearly everything that has caused the downslide we’ve seen over the past years. We’re aware of the issues and we’re finally addressing them. This year we’ve put a new customer service team in place and they are improving daily in terms of response time and servicing issues. We also have a new repair / warranty dept to improve our efficiency there. All of these things take time to take hold and hopefully our dealers will start to see the results of these efforts in the coming months – time will tell.

      In terms of tech info / schematics — great feedback and we’ll certainly take that to heart.

      Regarding our wheel systems being a headache – we’re making improvements there and, if you look at our current offer, you’ll see what I mean. Intuitive, serviceable hubs and standard spokes are just a couple of the highlights.

      We’re listening … and we’re addressing the issues.

      • Chad – admittedly, I (assuming like a lot of folks) get on here mostly to feed off of the comments like some sort of weird anonymous bad news internet predator.

        I’m assuming you don’t own Mavic – which makes it awesome that you would take the time to goto bat and set the record straight on the past (for good and for bad) / as well as the current. This is supposed to be an ENVE article, but I just went to Mavic’s site to look at some new Allroad’s as a result. For what it’s worth.. cheers.

      • @Chad Moore thanks for the rant, it’s good to know what you – an by extension Enve as a company think of “the endless drivel and whining” of the people who make up a large portion of the cycling public.

        Perhaps as Enve gets sold for a second time you ought to reflect on your attitude or maybe don’t.

        But if I was your boss I’d fire you for it.

        • @Bazz – You’re over generalizing my comments. I’m speaking specifically about the negative attitude and complaining in the Bike Rumor comments. That group does not make up a large portion of the cycling community but it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. This topic is something that is talked about a lot in the industry and it has a big impact on the reputation of BR. Further, I might suggest that if everyone here likes coming to BR for the content … try to be a little more constructive and productive and less negative and whiney … there are great discussions to be had but, often, the attitude here simply makes that almost impossible.

          • I believe the reason for the famously negative attitude of BR commenters is the lack of a simple rating system. Because stupid or insulting comments don’t get downvoted into shame-oblivion like on, for example, Pinkbike, people keep making them with impunity!

  9. On the price issue, they’re definitely expensive as stand alone hubs, but “reasonable” when purchased in a wheelset. “Only” a $100 upcharge over the DT240 at MSRP ($3000 vs $2900).

    • An upcharge over DT Swiss 240 which are the industry standard for reliable, fast engagement, and lightweight hubs? In what way are these actually an upgrade to 240’s other than being “cool” because they’re carbon?

      • Umm.. you mentioned three things. 2/3 are won by the ENVE hubs. The last is an unknown (which is a valid point).

        Weight – ENVE is lighter
        Engagement – ENVE is faster (granted, DT also offers upgrade engagement kits)
        Reliability – This is obviously where the question is, and nobody knows until the ENVE hubs get out in the world and ridden.

  10. Pretty poor for our environment, all that carbon sruff. Unless a new way to recycle carbon parts is invented, everybody should think twice before bangig more carbon on its bike.

    • You would seriously take the ‘recyclability” into consideration when it comes to purchasing hubs? Maybe as a first step work to get a bike with 0% made in China/Taiwan components. Good luck with that….

  11. I would like to see hubs like this address basic areas of improvement in hub design like optimized flange spacing and bearing placement. Anything less than placing the bearings as close to the dropouts as possible is giving away performance just like with outboard bearings being close to the crank arms. The left bearing of the rear hub could easily be moved closer to the dropout. The posted flange spacing must be a measurement of center to outside of flange for the result to be 19mm. If I’m wrong on that I apologise, but I think you would run into rear derailleur clearance if so. If it’s center to outside like my hunch then the flange is a rather normal 17.3mm or so. That could be optimized to 17.8mm without issue.

    Again, if you want to justify $1000 for hubs I think you can do better. At that price they should truly be the best and consider optimizing every aspect of the hub.

  12. Ive been using mavic products for 20 years but would never buy a rear wheel from them again because the freehub body design is so poor quality.

    Why did I keep buying new rear wheels? Well I thought they would one day improve the freehub durability but they never did lol

    • @durianrider – please see my comments above … we have an all new rear hub if you’re willing to give us another shot. If you dig a little into the tech that went into it – ratchet drive, bearing quality and the new QRM Auto bearing preload system. It’s an incredibly reliable and durable hub.

  13. @Chat, awesome to see you replying here! 😀

    Btw, looking at Mavic competitors, why does Mavic wheels seems to be on the heavier side of things? I look at the Road Disc offerings and they’re generally on the heavier end of the spectrum.

    • Hi O. Tan – good question … I think this would be one to discuss on an upcoming AASQ episode that I’m discussing with Tyler. Even though it is NOT a “stupid” question. 😉

      Many of the comments on this particular post have gotten us away from its original intention … to share some news about a pretty incredible new product. So, out of respect to Enve, I am going to stop responding to posts about Mavic (and the bad attitude in the comments section) and we can pick that all up in the very near future. I’ll be sure this is one of the first questions we address.

      To everyone else … feel free to send questions to me via email (see above) and we’ll get them on the list. Hopefully we’ll be able to really address some of the ongoing comments that seem to keep popping up.

      Have a great Monday all.

  14. Looks ok but I see some oversights. The $100 Taiwan hubs have a steel anti bite guard for these aluminum freehubs but this feature is not incorporated on this hubset? Why are the bearing sizes not listed on the website?

  15. @Chad, I bought a set of Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon SL UST wheels last year and they are fantastic! Great all around aero wheels with 40mm depth, and great braking technology. Nice wide rim bed (19mm) is perfect for my needs. Also, I have had several sets of previous Mavic wheels (Ksyrium Elite, Cosmic Elite, Ksyrium SL) and while the hubs weren’t the greatest, they were still perfectly acceptable, and reliable for me anyway. The new ID 360 hubs with QRM auto and the ratchet drive mechanism are awesome! Much lower drag than before, great response, good sound, simple to service. Great job on designing a nice new set of hubs (and overall wheels with my Pro Carbon SL UST’s!).

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