If we’re to believe the leaked images, SRAM is about to release another evolution on their path to 1x domination. But does that mean that the front derailleur is completely dead? It’s not April 1st, and this video certainly seems to put the final nail in the coffin for front mechs. Will this stick? Or simply open the door to companies like Shimano who are still offering 2x and 3x drivetrains (for the moment)?
Bravo to SRAM on being the pioneers of acceptance.
shimano still is holding on to the idea that people want 2x systems. They even developed the sync shifting around it. who in the world that you know that has shimano di2 mtb group uses their 2x?. I’d be really curious to know the actual numbers of shimano’s 2x vs 1x sales in their new groups. I do see that they have finally come up with a narrow wide version of their own
I know a pretty high end company that has sold more Di2 2x builds than 1x. what’s the point of Di2 if you don’t have an FD? Simplicity and minimization isn’t always the best goal for riders. Having the right gear combined with the right pedaling cadence is more important the not having an FD! The jump in gear range even on the Shimano 11×42 is significant enough to make me stay with the 11×40 option, and yes I run a 2x XTR bike, cause, if the FD works, why fix it. Unlike SRAM who can’t seem to make the FD work…
Cadence, cadence, cadence! There’s presently 39 mentions of range in the comments and 3 of cadence (and 2/3 are from you, Dan).
Y’all are missing the forest for the (first and last) trees.
That said, the future of non-competitive riding is continuously variable transmission; no fragile hangy bits, no shift timing or lag, no more rapid cog wear, etc., etc… I have seen the light, it is ∞. (And when that comes to pass, then we can focus all attention on range as if that were the complete picture).
Shimano is holding onto the idea that people want 2x systems because many of us do. 1x really is the ‘Emperor’s new clothes’, and SRAM are pioneering Kool-Aid more than anything. Many people live & ride in areas where they don’t need a big spread of gears, and many of the same people are mechanically inept, never learned how to shift, and backpedal through rock-gardens while cross-chaining. 1x is probably better _for them_, but that doesn’t make it _better_.
I live somewhere where the local trails have over 1000m in altitude gain within 10km line of sight of the office chair I’m sitting at (not complaining about that). 1x offers me less gear range, bigger jumps between ratios, less wheel compatibility, only to solve problems I don’t have, ‘lighter weight, greater simplicity, better chain retention’. Other than fitting in with the fad, why would I be tempted?
well said bearCol, I like the idea of gearbox, they’ve really taken off in Europe I hear.
I always thought of the SRAM push to 1x was an innovation born out of them never being able to make a good front derailleur. So they gave up on ever making a really good FD and figured out a work-around. All FDs can be annoying though.
I pedal up hills alot and have my last 3 bikes have been 1×11, now I have a 2×11 xt group and its amazing to have low gears again. When I climbed on the 1x I would be in the 42 most of the climb, but with the 2x I can crawl up grades that I would have just walked on my 1x. 2x is really nice if you pedal up hills.
ill tell you what, 2x shifting is pretty cool and makes uphills a breeze while flat sections go faster. I’d like to keep 2x.
Now here’s why I run 1x nevertheless:
– less maintenance/issues (slight advantage)
– less chain slap (huge advantage)
– cheaper than quality/high end 2x or di2-lol-prices (huge advantage)
– can easily swap front ring for an oval (slight advantage)
Note: I run 32t with 11-40 back with 10 speeds (though i plan to fix that, heck 11spd is going to be cheaper now 😉 and im rather fit – would not be able to use this if i wasnt (id need 28t i guess? or 2x of course)
The eagle is landing!
Not my cup of tea, maybe. I´m fine with 10-42. All my bikes newer bikes are 1×11. Latest one is GX, the other two are more expensive. But, hey, don´t need more than GX for normal riding. Rings are 34 or 36 to get some speed in the flats. Might try XT with 10-42 some day.
But at the end I´m convinced.
However, let´s save some derailleurs for beginners or travellers.
They need low gears badly.
Two weeks ago I did a ride from my home garage and back home: 30.4 miles with 8300 feet of climbing. Are your mountains or trails more “real”? Yes, I did it with 1×10 (42 front, 11-40 rear). No walking, too.
At some marathon races I did with the Singlespeed MTB others rode steep grades where I walked. I was as fast walking as they were riding. But after the steep sections they were exhausted while I jumped on the bike and overtook. There are limits even with 33 gears.
When 10 speed came out I was at Interbike and talked to an industry insider that told me he had seen prototypes from all three of the big drivetrain makers all the way up to 14 speed. He said if they really wanted, they could have jumped from 9speed to 13-14 speed fairly easily but that obviously doesn’t maximize the profits of incremental improvements every 2-3 years.
I do argue that is not enough range. Too much on the top. Too few on the bottom. I currently run 35/21 front with 11-40 rear. I intend to run 35/21 front with 11-46 rear.
Those really low gears are a godsend for long, fairly steep and boring climbs. At the same time, I get very usable range (35 + 11-4x) for the mixed terrain.
Or for super strong riders that can stay above 7 mph on long, extended climbs are also fine with 1x. I’ve placed very well in multiple 50 and 100 mile mtb races with significant climbing (~1000 ft per 10 miles) with my XX1. Yes, I have low body weight and train 15-25 hours per week year round. I rarely have to use my 42 on my 1x 29er with 32 up front. On actual single-track, or even fire-roads, the 10t is enough. Lack of gearing range has never hurt my race results (or those of my competition from what I can see).
@ Markus. I am living in the southwest of Germany. The Black Forest.
Well, I like uphills more than downhills, you know.
My racing bike is 650B XX1 36t front.36 because of racing – otherwise I would have 38 maybe.
there is a 40t direct mount ring laying here but haven´t used it right now.
My old trusty steel is converted from 3×8 to 1×10 about two years ago with a 42t in front and 11-40 back.
Compared to singlespeeding (which I do, too) these gears are very very low!
sram sucks at making a front deraileur so they give up, shimano doesn’t and their’s continue to work fine. When you’re rides top out of 13,000′ and you like to pedal as much as possible, 1x doesn’t cut it. . but at least the xx1 chains wear out faster, are ridicuously cross chained in the climbing gear and cost lot. . great job sram, bring on the PINION!!
Moto Pete is correct on 1x – As for me, I’m a busy guy and ride as much as possible but the fact is, I’m not in killer enough shape to truly love my XX1 bike. I ride it but it’s real tough after 1.5 hours. No more FS bike and now ride a hardtail which helped a lot. Talked to a few other guys my age and they all not happy w/ 1x. I rode my bike packing rig the other day and have a great time. Forgot that I love to spin when climbing. No spinning on a 1x system… it’s always hammer time. However I’m a betting man and figure SRAM will have the 45t cassette running soon so spinning will be an option for climbs. For bikepacking and a 45t, I could drop the front to a 28t and not care about the top end since I’m not in a hurry when camping. The evolution of 1x will be fine in the future but for now, it’s not the best option for everyone where as 2x works for majority… just not a cool.
The real trick for most people is to be honest with yourself. If you don’t have enough climbing gear, go down a ring size (or two). How often are you currently spinning out your 10T cog?
There are a lot of people riding 32t rings (because that is what came with their bike) that would be better served by a 28 or 30 (or even 26 in some cases).
Mateo, you hit the nail on the head. Many people should just go to a smaller front ring. Even with a 28t up front, it’s easy to spin up to 27 mph or so with a 10T rear cog. 27 mph is bloody fast for single track! If it’s steeper and I want to go faster, I’m generally better to tuck and coast. Races are generally won on the climbs, not by going 1 or 2 mph faster on the descents.
With the improvements of gearboxes I only hope that it catches on more, that Shimano and SRAM start actively developing. Wider range, less unsprung weight, weight centered in the bike, stronger wheel, and dedicated chain path for optimizing pivot placement for full sus designs. I rode a fat bike with a pinion set up and aside from preferring triggers to twisters, I was impressed by the thing.
@LateSleeper
“IMO, 1X is great for cyclists who’d rather walk.” – really?
You do realize that assuming you have 3×8 with 11-32 and 24/32/42 front, 1×11 with 10-42 and 32T front covers all the climbing range of your setup? Ultimate granny gear is identical and you would only loose 1 or 2 gears from your largest front ring (42/11 and maybe 42/12).
Where yould you propose to walk with such range?
Even if you had 22T smallest front ring on your 3×8, 30T on 1×11 would still match it, same as in example above.
SRAM is the only company that can make quitting cool! It’s amazing how they have utterly failed at making an FD work, watch the history.
1st they started with Gripshift, then they started making shifters, and RD’s, then they bought a crank company and tried their own FD options, when they couldn’t make the FD work for a triple they quit, then they started making the double FD and crank, when they couldn’t make that work, they quit again and made 1×11 history, and now, they realized that the 1×11 doesn’t provide enough gear range so they are “saying goodbye” to the FD cause they now admit that they couldn’t make it work… With the big jumps from each gear, you will never have the right pedaling cadence, insuring you will be fatigued at the end of your ride…
The FD is here to stay, and it works great! If you want a 1 quiver bike, for the majority of people that means you will want to climb and descend, and giving up the gear range isn’t worth it when you way function to simplicity.
I will ride a triple until I die. Why? I ride in actual mountains. We have trails so steep I’ve seen riders fall over backwards (no I am not kidding). A granny gear is a must. Did the Breck Epic a few years back, I RODE passed plenty of people in way better shape than myself on the steeps. Because they were all on 2x, and my 22 granny gear allowed me to keep riding. I can’t imagine the limitations on a 1x. Plus you actually have to shit more on a 2x or 1x, as you can’t just ‘pop’ form the middle ring to the granny gear in a pinch, you actually have to shift 5-7 gears to get down low. Really hate this 2x 1x fad…
You know that people ride the Breck Epic (and harder races) on single speeds, right? I would bet those same people kick your a** too. How do you explain that?
People fall over backwards when climbing because they have no idea about body positioning and the balance required not because they don’t have a granny. Using a granny gear has nothing to do with keeping you and your bike from falling over backwards. Bump your chest all you want about how the trails are sooooo steep because you live in the mtns and need a triple. I know the truth.
I’ve been riding 1×9 xt rapid rise (11-32) on my trail bike for nearly 10 years and never wanted more gears at the hassle of a FD or bigger cogs… or a bigger wheel for that matter (still on 26 inch).
However, in my opinion, this seems to just be more hype in an industry with a thousand “New Standard(s)” chomping at the bit for our hard earned dollars.
Sadly, I’m on my last XT 9 speed cassette and will have to “upgrade” this season.
Close(ish). A 10-49 would do it.
36/24 with an 11-36 = 491% range. A 1×10-49 would be 490% (so make it 10-50 if you want to surpass your double’s range). 32t ring would be slightly lower gearing, and 34t would be slightly higher. And note that at 90rpm, that is a speed range of around 5kph to over 40kph on a 29er.
This link wouldn’t allow 12 cogs, so its showing a big gap at the low end on the 1x setup that would be filled in with a 12th cog.
That math is wrong. You would need a 33t ring and a 50t rear. Coincidentally that is what the Eagle leak is. 10-50t.
36/11=3.27
33/10=3.30
24/36=0.67
33/50=0.66
I’m still surprised SRAM would realease 12 before Shimano though since SRAM likes to copy Shimano’s spacing for compatibility, but I guess they’ve already diverged on MTB in terms of cassettes.
In your example by going 10-42 you would loose only 36×11 OR 24×36 depending on front chainring, and rest of the range would stay the same.
I personally don’t spend much time on either and can easily compensate that by slightly higher cadence. Having no worries about gearing when approaching climb or downhill, no chaindrops or chainsuck, or chain rattling, 300-400g weight saving, less clutter on handlebars, less maintenance.
All these for me outweigh having one additional gear on extreme ends of range.
I ride too and from the trails on the road. If I only had a 32 or 34 front chaining I think I’d climb off and pitch the POS in the ditch. Buy your components from a company that can actually make front shifting work and has for years. I’ll buy a 1×11 right after I buy and giant F-150 to carry my precious bike to the trails and back…yeah, that will be never.
I can’t understand why nobody ever makes this point…I love my 2X10 because I can grab the equivalent of 3 rear gears either up or down with a single click of the FD. So quick. Hit a sudden pinch? One click. Crest the rise and getting back up to speed? One click. OK, I’m experienced with using front derailleurs and I keep my bikes well adjusted but, sheesh…it’s not that hard! I hammer downhill fairly hard, hard enough to usually be in the front group of any casual downhill ride, and I simply never have chain-drop problems. Is it just experience and a bit of mechanical sympathy? I don’t know. But I love using my FD and use it as often as the RD. Bike is 130/150 travel dually. Riding is uphill and down, I love both.
Ive been running Sram front derailleurs since ever they first came out, never had a problem. From what I hear, Shimano does make a better front, but who cares. If you’re shifting your front derailleur as much as your rear derailluer, maybe it would be a problem.
As far as 1x is concerned, its way better, and yes, I do live in real mountains with real climbs and descents. On one of my bikes, I run XX with a 39/26 chain rings, with a 11-36 cassette, it surprises me how often I don’t even shift into the 26T ring, about the only time I do use it, is on super steep climbs, but with 1x, just about every one of those climbs are totally make able( XX1 34T chain ring, 10-42 cassette)
Keep 2x for the road, since I don’t believe there will ever be enough gear range, but for mountain biking and cross, 1x is the way to go.
I run 2* with a 620% gear range and there are many days I use the whole shebang. And I ride 12-15 hours a week. Even if a 1* system eventually covers that wide of a range the gaps will be annoyingly large and at some point I think you would also lose the whole “works more efficiently” part as you ask the RD to do too much. The part that always gets me is how trivial the gain is, as if 3/4 lb and “less chain slap” is a reason to hobble your bike. Many people live in mellower terrain, but in Washington I have a name for people who ride 1*
walkers.
I ride 1x on 3 bikes (XC, trail/enduro, DH). There are good and bad properties.
I find the range (32×10-42) sufficient for XC riding and racing, but I do spin out on downhill pavement.
Trail range (30×10-42) is also fine, but I have to swap to a larger ring for racing enduro, which ends up being too tough to push up steeper climbs.
Before 1x I couldn’t really run a big ring on my trail bike anyway because I’d bash the crap out of it, so I’d run a 34 + bash guard.
My rides usually average between 150-225ft of climbing per mile for the whole ride.
Good stuff about 1x is weight, narrow-wide, oval rings, and not having to time front shifts.
Narrower range and getting stuck on the wrong side of the block when you unexpectedly stop are not so good things.
Overall I’m happy with my switch to 1x, and I think the upside outweighs the downside.
@mateo With a 2x you can gain or drop a lot of range in a single front shift, vs having to make multiple shifts to move up or down the 1x cassette. If there is an unexpected grade reversal or you stop in a bad spot, it’s much quicker to drop to the small chainring vs having to shift 6 clicks up the cassette of a 1x, especially if you are trying to do it while riding in too tall of a gear at 45 rpm.
IDK. Seems like most people on this thread either love or hate 1x with a passion, while I see pluses and minuses. Overall I like 1x, but range and not having the bigger jump between rings are definite disadvantages.
I ride mostly in the mountains with long climbs and long descents, and what I really need is one or two low range gears for going up and 5 or so gears for descending. On my 1x I typically use the 2 easiest gears going up, and then the bottom half of the cassette on the way down. I very rarely use 6-7-8-9.
Revised Hammerschmidt + XO1 DH 7sp might be a pretty rad setup, super crisp shifting plus a low range climbing gear.
