It’s Time for Fisticuffs with Vassago’s New Drop Bar Monster Crosser

Open slider dropout with disc brakes…that’s a bad idea.

@Matt, they’ve used this setup for a long time without major issue.

Is it gravel rated?

@Matt: works just fine on my single speed mountain bike.

frameset price is in line with a surly, thats fine. the dropouts and brake mounts are fine too. this bike is fine. just fine. not special, pretty boring. fine.

@Kevin

Actually the Brits had a term for this decades ago: rough stuff. Pre-dates gravel, monster cross and mountain bikes by several decades. The Rough Stuff Fellowship in the UK was founded in the 50s and is the oldest off-road cycling organization on the planet.

As with so many other things (650b, compact gearing, etc.) all that’s old is new again. 😉

Not bad.

No reason to keep rim brakes though. Just looks unclean.

To be exact; the Surly Karate Monkey MSRP is $475(USD). When you consider that the Karate Monkey comes sans chain tensioners and current versions omit the canti studs and appropriate cable hanger accouterment, the $589 seems fairly reasonable.

Personally I like the idea of canti studs being part of the frame. I could see riders picking up a frame like this to build up with minimal investment up front and get the majority of their parts out of their respect spare parts bins.

I suppose the trade off is how “monster” you want to be. The Fisticuffs max’s out tire clearance at 1.8 but the Karate Monkey is 2.5. However, the Fisticuff’s does bring a slightly tighter rear triangle to the game by 6mm. On a related note the Karate Monkey allows for a 200mm rotor. Again how “monster” to you want to go?

What makes this such an interesting frame at this price point is the use of size specific tubing, something that can greatly improve ride quality and creates a frame that rides the same whether your 5’7″ on a medium or 6’5 on an XL.

I suppose the final question is the following: how big a deal it is for the consumer to buy a USA made frameset or an Asian import?

I think the only thing missing would possibly be that rather than simple cable stops on the down tube I’d like to see down tube shifter bosses. but that me being more than slightly… ahem… super-turbo-anal-retentive. But hey, I like barrel adjusters and the idea of running either of the frames as 1×10’s (11’s… whatever) with a down tube shifter because I’m classy / weird like that.

The problem is mostly that the rotor is fixed to and moving with the hub (horizontally, depending on chain wear, chosen chainring and cog sizes, etc.) whereas the calliper is fixed to the frame, which can create fore/aft alignment issues. An alternative design would be something like the sliding dropouts from Paragon (http://bit.ly/1a6bbJh).

@EvanT – As far as I know, every Karate Monkey ships with the tensioners. They’re just not advertised on the website. And no one wants cantis anymore. It’s over.

Really, wouldn’t a carbon hardtail 29er with cross tires (and perhaps a rigid fork/lauf fork) be just as light, twice as nimble, and 3 times as flexible?

“Handles like an MTB when things get technical”?

With a 72-72.5 HA and your hands so close to being over the front axle?
Handles like a CX or touring bike with bigger tyres would be a bit more realistic. That’s fine, I like bikes like that, but to say you can descend or ride tech on a bike like this in the way you’d ride an MTB is a bit far-fetched.

Compare Surly Straggler frameset or disc Trucker for a comparable price-but neither can do canti’s. I like my Paul’s….and neither can do a 52t road crank and big tires….

Looks like a sweet do-it-all frame.
I have been wanting a Cross bike I can shred trails on, but I also am kicking around a cross USA bike ride. A bike like this can do both well.

@EvanT
The problems are several:
1. The axle can rather easily slip around in the drops unless you have an internal cam shimano skewer that’s got pretty good teeth on it. Even then you have to make sure it’s clamped pretty tight, if it’s not 100% tight it can angle the wheel just enough to require trailside correction because the brakes will rub too strongly. This can also happen rather easily if you brake yourself while rolling backward or on a reverse incline.

I believe Trek fixed this issue with having two screws (one fore, one aft) to give sliding ability by adjusting the fore screw, but then to maintain position with an aft screw.

2. As @FourthandVine mentioned, having the brake mount fixed and the wheels sliding can mean even more alignment issues.

The best solution isn’t really common yet, but I think Paragon came close with these dropouts:
https://bikerumor.com/2013/03/20/paragon-machine-works-debuts-sweet-belt-drive-quick-release-dropouts/

As with many things bike-related though lots of things work just fine for years, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do things (e.g. canti-brakes vs. discs, QR vs Thru-axle, downtube vs. STI, etc.). Ultimately what they do here is choose the cheapest solution that works a lot of the time, but it’s not really a great idea unless your top needs are cheap and easy.

I’ve got this frame. Rides great. I run Avid BB7s.

So the horizontal dropout and disc mount situation is pretty f*cked.

Yeah. You have to remove the caliper to get the wheel out if you get a flat.

I love everything about the frame except that. Why. WHY. Anyone, even a non-cyclist could point that out as an issue.