SOC16: Marin shows 2017 Pine Mountain 1, Ushers in new 141mm Boost Open QR dropouts

marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3419

First day of Sea Otter and we’ve already found a new hub standard. Sort of. Marin took the wraps off the new 2017 Pine Mountain 1 which slots in between the current Pine Mountain 1 and 2, with the 2016 PM1 becoming just the Pine Mountain going forward.

While the addition of a plus bike with a suspension fork and a 1×11 drivetrain for just $1299 is notable, what really caught our attention was the mention of “Boost 141x9mm open dropouts.” This was the first we’d heard of it, so it was straight over to Marin to learn more…

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marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3422 marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3429

marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3430

After a quick run through the numbers, you realize that 141mm is 7mm less than 148, just like 135mm was 7mm less than the 142mm thru axles. That’s exactly what is going on here. The new 141x9mm hubs will be the QR equivalent of Boost 148 thru axle bikes which has a few advantages. The biggest seems to be from an OEM perspective (and also to the benefit of the consumer) in that it allows companies like Marin to build a plus bike around the Boost spacing and chainline for proper tire clearance with a less expensive hub and ultimately frame. That means bikes like the new Pine Mountain 1 benefit from a stronger rear wheel and better frame design without resorting to the more expensive thru axle frames.

marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axle industry 9 end capsIMG_3561 marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axle industry 9 end capsIMG_3560

It also means for many companies like Industry 9 and Stans, they can offer Boost 148 TA and 141mm QR compatible wheels with the same rear hub, just different end caps. So far we’ve confirmed with both I9 and Stan’s that their Boost wheels will be compatible with 141mm QR frames by using their standard QR end caps. We also heard rumors that while Marin is the first to show a bike with 141×9 dropouts, most of the big brands have already signed on and have bikes in the works with the new size in the near future. This will likely bring back the days where the entry level bikes will come with QR wheels and dropouts to save money, but will have dropout chips that could be upgraded to thru axle in the future along with the wheels.

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Frame details include a double butted chromoly tube set, full rack and fender mounts, and even frame back mounts under the top tube.

Regardless of your opinion on the dropouts, the Pine Mountain 1 looks like a great bike that will be speced with the new Shimano SLX 1×11 (11-42) drivetrain using Marin’s own crank with Boost chainline. Equipped with a RockShox Recon Silver RL Boost fork with 120mm of travel, the wheels are 40mm inner width, tubeless ready, and come wrapped in Schwalbe Nobby Nic 27.5 x 3.0″ tires. Due to the fact that the original Pine Mountain 1 (now Pine Mountain) was such a big hit, the new PM1 is an early 2017 release that will be available later Summer for $1299.

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marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3415 marin pine mountain 1 plus harfd tail 141 boost qr rear spacing axleIMG_3411

Not to be overlooked, Marin also has a killer deal on the gravel/all road/commuter side with the new Nicasio. Also using a double butted chromoly frame, the Nicasio brings a drop bar, disc brake 2×8 bike to $769.99. Fitting up to 40mm tires (comes stock with 30mm), the bike uses 135mm rear, 100mm front QR dropouts with a Shimano Claris drivetrain and will be available late summer.

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Antipodean_eleven
6 years ago

“Boost 141x9mm open dropouts”…. seriously?

“benefit from a stronger rear wheel and better frame design” outside marketgineering land, 6mm +/-, or 3mm +/- per side, does not maketh a stronger wheel – good wheelbuilding makes a stronger wheel.

As for frame design, considering it’s running a 1x, that’s a possible maybe but as to how much and was the amount of ‘how much’ worth the effort?

JBikes
JBikes
6 years ago

So if one performed “good wheelbuilding” on a older 142 hub vs a new boost hub with flange pushed 3mm per side which wheel would be stronger.
All things being equal, the boost wheel will be.
Needed? No. But nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything, not to mention any non-boost wheel will fit into a boost frame or fork. Simple adapters and spacers are all that is needed.

Dan
Dan
6 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything, until in two years when they no longer make your standard for that bike you just bought.

Antipodean_eleven
6 years ago

Show me independent FEA (ie. not some ‘selected’ justification screen grabs or charts from a bike company) of the older vs. the newer to prove that such a change, and all the costs involved, delivers something that is substantially stronger (ie. by more than 5%) and I’ll fully agree.

As far as not forcing anyone, well not directly no. But more of these insane standard dilute the pool and at some point stuff will either start being harder to get or not be able to be got at all. And while I am no retrogooch, I see no reason to ditch a perfectly working ‘something. if I don’t have to but just because some marketing guy thinks I should.

JBikes
JBikes
6 years ago

FEA? Its a simple statics problem. Take a normal 142 hub with a center to driveside flange distance of 19.25 mm vs a 148 boost hub of 22.25. With an normal 29er ERD of say 582mm, there is a reduction in spoke force due to a lateral wheel load of 13.4%. That means your spokes elongate less (young’s modulus is constant in elastic region), i.e. a stiffer wheel by ~13.4%.
Bracing angles improvements are well known. This isn’t new.
Again needed? No, but on 29er it does make a difference. I’ve been happily running 12×142. Do I need 148 hubs. Again no. But they do make a laterally stiffer and stronger wheel by a considerable margin.

Antipodean_eleven
6 years ago

Show me the actual numbers derived from actual tests on actual, complete, wheels, not bits in isolation, and I’ll buy it. A wheel is a complete system, hence needs to be tested as such.

I’m not a hard man to please, I but I like hard numbers that demonstrate the argument clearly; there is far too much ‘compartmentalised’ factoids in the industry… and in the bike world in general.

traildog
traildog
6 years ago

3: something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example

henrik
henrik
6 years ago

hot damn, marin is back on track! love the pine line.

Volsung
Volsung
6 years ago

QR options are great for those of us who use locking skewers. The fat cats at the locking skewer companies haven’t kept up with all the various sizes.

Seraph
Seraph
6 years ago
Reply to  Volsung

Allegedly PinHead is working on a locking 15×100 axle at the moment.

Seraph
Seraph
5 years ago
Reply to  Volsung

I know this is an old post, but there’s a company called The Robert Axle Project that is making locking through axle systems.

Paul
Paul
6 years ago

That’s made any decision about a new bike a bit easier, as it won’t be a Marin.

The proliferation of unnecessary standards designed by marketing people and not engineers is killing the marketplace, it has to stop.

barfly
barfly
6 years ago

I don’t give a rip about QR. I want bomber strong light stiff durable and less chance of rotor misalignment. Disc brakes should = thru axles.

Garrett
Garrett
6 years ago

I have never had issues with QR and discs before, and this is much more in my price range, and its Shimano still. This… may be my next bike. What is the front end width?

OneLegDuck
OneLegDuck
6 years ago

Majority of their bikes will have thru axles like all other brands at the appropriate price points. However all brands that need to hit a price point still use QR and standard 135mm on the rear. Marin is the only one who is using boost spacing and a QR. Hubs and frame do not cost any more but you get a much stiffer wheel modern wheel. It makes perfect sense since they still have to have QR models like all other brands… Marin is the one doing it better at the same price points and spec. Super smart Marin.

OneLegDuck
OneLegDuck
6 years ago

@ Paul – Has a great point on the bike market having issues. The biggest killer of retail is poor customer service and ability to stock parts for quick repair. Now everything has to be ordered. If the ordering process is not efficient on either end, it takes multiple conversations and days lost. In the past, a repair would have been done in a day or two, now repairs take one to three weeks (average). OEM proliferation of standards has killed the ability for dealers and distributors to stock deeper levels of inventory. Also there is a learning curve figuring out the proper spec. If you order the wrong thru axle pitch, then you have to send it back and hopefully get the right spec, etc… Consumers are pissed. IBD model is broken and it’s the OEM brands fault. Dealers can not easily go to one distributor anymore. They have to contact bike brands and component makers directly which often are difficult to deal with. The distributors and their dealer base who figure this out wins (high customer service). QBP is the closest to the new world order for the bicycle business. They have complete bike lines and all the industry parts in house (not “all” Shimano parts). They have excellent customer service and will get you the correct repair part on their bike lines. Others are coming on strong like Hawley with their bike lines and the industries best outside rep force.

Blame the bicycle OEM’s for the industry IBD’s going away (Specialized and Cannondale are historically the worst offenders).

Him
Him
6 years ago

Odd to use 9mm not 10mm for rear axle. But hey.

h
h
6 years ago

@Paul and OneLegDuck
I have no idea how you guys have come to the conclusions you have. I have worked in multiple bike shops now and service turn around is never more than 3 days. Consumers are not pissed. 99.9% of people looking at buying a new bike have never heard of bikerumor or pinkbike and when you explain to them the features bikes have and how they change as bikes get more expensive they understand and don’t complain. At least I’ve never had that happen. Perhaps the people commenting on sites like this don’t support their local bike shops.

Auto shops don’t stock everything for every car. Our service department has a lot of basic stuff but obviously not everything. When I tell a customer dropping off a bike that we need to order parts it is extremely rare that they balk at that. And when they do its never someone who has anything nice, its the entry level comfort bike rider or wal-mart shopper that just pulled their bike out of the back of the shed after 6 years. In either case, they get their bike back in 2 days.

Smart IBDs are not struggling. Big OEMs are not hurting anybody. Normal customers are not pissed about anything. Bikes are getting waaaay better. If “the bike industry” that everyone whines about on here didn’t try to slowly change things and push things forward IBDs would be having one hell of a time trying to sell you the same thing they sold you last year and 5 years ago and 15 years ago. Hop on any bike from 10 years ago and tell me you’d prefer that to a modern $2K trail bike. If you say yes you’re fooling yourself.

WannaBeSTi
WannaBeSTi
6 years ago

As a shop who’s stocked Marins…
1) If the ’17 Pine Mountain is like the ’16, they’ll never have them in stock.
2) The ’16 PM1 is 135(rear) and 100(front) AND 27+ so, they’z all most there
3) Marin is going to come out with a new milk…1.125-1.5 fat because skim, 1%, 2%, and whole is so…too, like, old school.

Their “standard” is only advancing the complexity of getting a replacement in the future.

@OneLegDuck… ditto. However for us, we prefer Hawley or J&B. Hawley rep live in town and will do what ever it takes. Mike at J&B (Birminghan) knows his stuffs and isn’t afraid to say “I don’t know, but lemme check”.

gringo
gringo
6 years ago

As much as this ”first event of the season / first ‘new’ standard” will get the Trolls frothing, a QR version of the wider 148 standard is not neccesarily bad. If this catches as Boost seems to have then even cheap bikes should benefit from a stronger wheel build.

OneLegDuck
OneLegDuck
6 years ago

@ wannaBeSTI – J&B has come a long way from Junk and Bargains. They are one of the hardest working distributors I’ve seen. Good to hear about Marins being liked so much. They have come a long way as well. Good crew across the board.

Ryan Johnson
6 years ago

Too bad about their nomenclature since a QR rear hub always sports a 10mm OD. Orbea made the same mistake with their C9-12 adaptable concentric pivot. The root cause of the misrepresentation there was a singular designation in their inventory control system for quick release wheels for both front and rear. Both were labeled as 9mm. Of course that is not the case.

Roman
Roman
6 years ago

141mm QR is NOT a new standard.

However the reason behind making a “boost QR” wheel/frame combo is debatable. Is it really cheaper to have two smaller lots of QR + thru axle bikes instead of having thru axles on every frame? Yes QR may be cheaper but quantities drive costs and in this example they have to produce two different frames so why all this effort?

Sounds more like making the cheaper base model artificially inferior to justify the upgrade to the Pine Mountain 2

Thesteve4761
Thesteve4761
6 years ago

April fools?

chris
chris
6 years ago

Their hub standards move forward, but their geometry is stuck in the past!!! 🙂

Lars Danner
Lars Danner
6 years ago

I like quick release frames. They work fine with disc brakes. Good move Marin.

James
James
6 years ago

I wish this bike (2017 Pine Mountain 1) existed when I started mountain biking many years ago. It looks like a great combination of a burly frame, reliable relatively lightweight drive train and some utility thrown in for adventure. With bikes like this, I think new people delving into the sport of mountain biking regardless of rider weight or ability are going to have a blast on this new bike.

Adam
Adam
6 years ago

I can’t wait to get my hands on this bike…looks like it’s going to be a fun machine!!!

Diego
Diego
4 years ago

Hi, I’m from Chile, I have an Xcaliber 7 2018
The rear hub is 141x9mm for 9v, a while ago I bought a hub for 11v and I found the problem that the shaft is left out. My question is, will there be an adapter for 141mm? Or I will have to change the complete mace and if so, where do I find a mace of that size for 11v?

bmwt
bmwt
3 years ago

2019 mid-point in the bike season and after a day and half of looking, there aren’t many 141mm QR hubs to be found in the USA. I see Euro web-sites and am about to buy a Shimano FH-MT200 from an Ebay seller in Latvia (probably sourced out of Germany). This is a problem with the trends in the US “bike industry” or lack-there-of. Complete bikes are imported with standards changes and no parts to support when the need arises. This is true for BB standards that changed with C-dale’s BB30a – no after market cranks were immediately on-shore when they give a warranty replacement frame. Same story with this wheel standard three model years into it existing. The bikes that were spec’ed with it were usually good value-to-performance builds that maintaining should be economical as a first option. So not forcing an upgrade that is a huge jump to a rear hub costing several hundred dollars alone i.e. I-9, DT-Swiss, Hope. I’ve checked with QBP and no hub is there but a compete wheel that matches the bikes they sell with this standard has been added to their inventory. I would hope Trek has stock of something – I don’t have access to them but they used a 141mm QR hub on the Roscoe. Weird how Novatec doesn’t seem to be supported very well outside of J&B but still the cost of those hubs is above mid-priced and not a great value-prospect

The 141mm standard is a reality and there needn’t be so much attitude about it coming into existence – it’s a reality and pragmatism says – “deal with it”. The sourcing of a hub at a reasonable price on this continent seems like it should also be a reality but we are gradually becoming a second rate supply location for bicycle parts. Maybe these bikes are commodity items now – so disposable or maintained only at higher costs?