Totally Custom De Rosa King 311 from Pista Palace

I believe you.

How many centimeters of drop would one expect on a 54cm?

For those of us outside the USA, can you expalin what you mean by, “PBK’s of the world”, please?

In the UK, PBK is the name of a well respected (mainly clothing) cycle business

Thanks

$5500 and you still have bolt-together 2piece dropouts…

When I saw this I almost cried. Beautiful!!!!!

So, it’s allegedly a fact that US Probikekit.com is a “bottom feeding cockroach.” When companies start throwing around language like that, it becomes obvious that said companies aren’t very high on the credibility lade and lack an important dollop of integrity. That’s the kind of stuff that bottom feeding cockroaches say.

Companies with class do not engage in that sort of public talk.

I’ve never purchased from US Probikekit.com, and from this point on it’ll be difficult to say anything positive ab out the Pista Palace or the people that represent them.

@ Pista Palace: Two questions… are you gonna get lambo doors on your whip? And, are you Ali G?

Brandon,

Where did you read that tube on tube construction is exclusive to Italy? You are confused. So let me make this clear, as it pertains to De Rosa, any custom frame King 3 RS is made tube on tube in Italy. Tube on tube can be done in any country, but when you buy a De Rosa King 3 RS Custom you are guaranteed buying a made in Italy bike. I hope this clarifies things for you.

YES. If you want custom geometry you can get it at this price. I repeat, if you want custom geometry (and even tube diameters and BB options) you can get it at this price. And if you aren’t a fan of our Pantone 311 you can choose another paint option (you own, perhaps) and get it at the same price. That is the beauty of the custom option. You just need to be patient for the delivery.

@Robin…. any website that sells product to U.S. customers for 20 bucks over wholesale cost with no tax and free shipping deserves worse than being called a roach… I’m all about good deals, but there won’t be any local bike shops if this industry doesn’t demand integrity from it’s dealers and wholesalers. What’s messed up is that if a US dealer did that the manufacturer or distributor would cut them off immediately… The US equiv of PBK is competitive cyclist… an amazing website, with all the best gear and they run a legit and respectable business who doesn’t screw the brick and mortar stores… how many times do we have to kick england’s ass before they learn not to tread on us a-mer-cuns!

The only bad thing I can say about this bike is that there is a lot of overpaint (but that’s typical of italy). This is why you buy bikes like this from Pista Palace, b/c they know how to clean and face frames and cable guides etc… Well, maybe 2 bad things I really wanted the King 3 RS Pista Palace to come in full Azzurra with gold logos…. but I’ll have to hold off on that until I can afford a full custom paint job.

Robin –

You’re being too harsh on Pista Palace because you obviously don’t understand the situation that he is referring to. This is obvious because you keep referring to US Pro Bike Kit (PBK). PBK is not located in the US. They are based out of the UK.

If you are someone who runs a bike shop in the United States, as Pista Palace obviously does, then PBK is indeed the devil. They grey market sell stuff at prices that no US dealer can meet and completely undercut bike shops in the United States as a result. Did you not notice the bit earlier in the article where Pista noted that they got f’d over by an actual bike *manufacturer* who took a frame which they had custom commissioned and then started letting PBK sell it? That was done at prices that Pista Palace can’t touch here and PBK was more than willing to sell the frame even though they knew it was “exclusive” to someone else.

I don’t know if you’re in the United States or not, but places like PBK continually undercut our local bike shops here. Pricing for many European components, be they tires from Continental or group kit from Campagnolo, are normally set quarterly and are done against the exchange rate of the Euro. Local shops can’t advertise under certain pricing (MAP – Minimum Advertised Price) and even if they wanted to price match someone like PBK they’d end up doing it at a loss or close to it since PBK sells many of these items at close to the *cost* of a US retailer.

Sure you can get a Time frame from PBK and pay significantly less than you would from Pista Palace. But if you have any issues you’re going to have to ship it back to the UK since your warranty is effective from your country of purchase. Of course, PBK never mentions that.

Pista Palace, depsite your accusations, is one of the best bike shops in Southern California, if not the entirety of the western United States. They custom select what they carry in their shop, they provide unyielding customer service and will bend over backwards for their clients. They provide quality goods at fair pricing for the market in which they exist. And they stand behind everything they sell.

On top of that, as business owners who actually give a crap about craftsmanship and the integrity of what they sell they do their best to promote and feature products made by actual persons who can make a decent wage and living at their craft and try their best to not frequent substandard sweatshops who don’t care about what they’re cranking out so long as they can do it as cheap as possible. Yes, “made in Italy” doesn’t guarantee quality, but you can bet that if there are issues Pista Palace can get their needs addressed via those manufacturers and no one will lose their life for it.

Pista Palace isn’t so much trash talking the competition as pointing out that they are competing against unscrupulous folks out there who can’t compare or compete with Pista Palace in terms of what they offer, service or respect for the customer. As a consumer I actualy *want* to know these things. I want to know who provides crap service and who is going to be there for me as a consumer. And I want to know I’m supporting someone who cares about me from the time they meet me to beyond the point of sale.

Before you think I’m some friend of Pista’s or a frequent customer who gets discounts from them I’ll let you know that I’ve never bought anything from Pista Palace. But they’ve always been kind enough to answer questions for me when I’ve had them via email about products and give honest assessments in the process including referring me to a lesser priced Time frame than I originally wanted because it suited my riding style and body type better than the one I originally inquired about.

Pista Palace is not my local bike shop as I’m over 100 miles away, but I’ll defend a bike shop of their quality and integrity every day of the week from folks who think they’re not the high quality shop they aspire to be.

Thanks for the support guys. At least with Trialtir (De Rosa’s distributor) they are making an effort to keep bikes with the IDB’s. It’s tough. And its tough for a lot of people.

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113307/job-growth-stalls-new-businesses-fail-fins

The reason, Robin, why I get so upset about the PBK’s and Realcyclist.com aka Bonktown, Backcountry is that we are so very passionate and cycling and our products and get frustrated when we work so hard to make our customers happy only to be undersold by these guys at prices I can’t even buy stuff at. And imagine, for a second that you spent months and a $100k of your own money to design an Italian bike exclusive to your business only to find it adverstised on a blowout website the day you receive your shipment. I think you would be a little upset, also. Many European companies claim they are doing something about it but while they are telling you they are cracking down they are loading trucks full of bike parts bound for the UK.

It appears to be at a boiling point, however. SIDI has been killed in the US because of this practice. TIME has alienated their French dealers because French people can buy a French made bike for less if they order it from the UK. And if we are allowed to advertise for less than retail here in the US than we risk no longer becoming dealers. Unfortunately for these European companies when you let the discounters sell your product for a period of time, the product loses its value regardless of whether or not it is of the highest quality. And it will take a long time before IDB retailers here will bring it back into their shops. But lessons are being learned and I think we are seeing a return to the IDB. Albeit it at a very slow rate.

I would hate to think that people would just want to have to choose from Specialized and Trek concept stores, Performance bikes, and these on-line bottom feeders. The Independent bike shops are the backbone of this industry. Most of us do it because we really love it. I know I do. We have taken a lot of time and resources to carve a niche but when someone shows up at your shop with a box full of PBK stuff and asks to build it for him you realize you have to either take off the gloves or do something else. And we don’t blame the consumer. Especially in this economy.

For the record, we continue to match the pricing of these on-line retailers in an effect to get loyalty. We still sell more Lightweight wheels and TIME’s than anybody in the world so I figure we are doing something right. And lastly, we give back to the cycling community. We have been sponsoring grass roots cycling since day one. The money that is used to support these guys and the race promoters and people involved comes 100% directly from any monies earned at the shop. So we do what we can to give back to the cycling community. And in an environment when the most successful team in the pro peleton cant find a sponsor, we think that has some merit.

Justin

I thought US foreign policy encouraged the free Market and International trade?

If the £ wasn’t on its knees vs. the mighty $, then US citizens wouldn’t find it as attractive to purchase from the UK

Perhaps the loss of AAA status may have unitended benefits if the $ weakens?

Oh no, then everything imported would be more expensive too…

@ Pista Palace: “Where did you read that tube on tube construction is exclusive to Italy?” You stated: “The custom version also uses a different construction technique that can only be done in Italy.” Then you said “Tube on tube construction is my way of saying this frameset is hand made in Italy”. Put those two statements together and they say the construction technique used is exclusive to Italy, and that technique is tube on tube.

Maybe you can see now how someone could be confused?

Now that we have part of this cleared up, maybe you can explain which construction technique is used “that can only be done in Italy”?

I spend a lot of money at my LBS, but certainly not all of it. I gladly go online to get clothes and other things at prices the LBS can’t match. In fact, they’ve said to do as much, and they said it would be stupid not to as much. They treat someone bringing in their Motobecane or generic Taiwanese bike just as they would any other customer: fairly. They understand the key to retaining customers is not trashing competitors but instead to act as if they have dignity. They don’t go online and spew like Pista Palace.

So, Pista Palace, what exactly have you gained by venting your spleen, eh: a sudden flood of customers; the imminent demise of PBK; a businessman of the year award? You’ve likely gained nothing, other than appearance of someone without the maturity or creativity to handle changes in the marketplace.

Sadly, a fair number of LBS have not been able to stay in business with changes in the marketplace caused by the growth in internet sales. This however happens any time the marketplace changes. What you haven’t acknowledged or likely even have thought about is that a fair number of LBS have made adjustments to their business models and have continued to thrive.

It’s kind of you to focus on your needs as opposed to thinking about how the economy has affected your customers. Whether you like it or not a lot of people have less or much less disposable income right now. That will logically drive a fair number to seek better prices elsewhere. There’s not a damned thing wrong with that. Your bank balance is certainly not the only one that’s important.

Apparently PBK is not operating illegally, and it is–I hate to break this to you–highly unlikely that you will have any noticeable impact on their business. So there you are. You can continue to whine to customers and online, the result of which will be energy wasted, or you could act with some character and have a more direct impact on your bottom-line by encouraging customers to patronize your business. There is a direct analogue to your smear campaign: look at how politicians behave. They rarely or never say what they can, will, or are going to do, and instead they spend a majority of their time smearing their opposition and spewing about what the opposition has done wrong. Look how much respect they get. Look at how little they get accomplished. Again, what does your pissing on your competitors publicly gain you?

If you’d like to continue the discussion, I imagine Tyler could provide you with my email.