IB14: Ellsworth Dare Downhill Bike Goes Carbon, Gets Adjustable Travel & 27.5″ Wheels

I’d argue that no modern MTB needs a front derailleur mount, but at the very least, a DH bike should be able to do without one.

The 90’s called…they want their flexy rear walking beam back so Elsworth can refuse to warrant it when broken.

somewhere there has to be ideas on different rocker designs on a file in their office, yes? it’s impossible not to with all the advances in tech and progression in riding going on that they’ve never considered anything else structurally much less aesthetically. i dunno

Most companies talk to designers all the time on new components and suspension designs. They start the process and it changes until it fits the brand and it’s requirements (function and just as important the aesthetics). Ellsworth needs to let some of these engineers and designers work with them on new suspension designs. The Ellsworth name is cool and has history that was “once” good. Does not matter if the current design works or not, consumers want the latest and greatest. They want to be associated with a brand that they connect with. Ellsworth does not have any brand mojo consumers want. They need to quit pushing what people do not want… and push what people do want. Innovate… or die right? Ellsworth is dying a slow death. It’s time to wake up and let the current brand manager go and bring in some new blood.

1999 Kona Stab Dee-Lux.

I just love the “but it’s not new!” comments. As if there is some need to tweak a design that works great. Not sure if I find the “make is prettier” comments funnier. The Big E figured out suspension 10+ years ago, they absolutely should not replace it just to ‘replace it’. My only criticism would be why they haven’t been able to make their bikes lighter!? They’ve had the same design for 10+ years, let figure out a way to bring down the weight. (My 29er Evolve had a SEVEN POUND frame). What?!?!? Loved the ride, but couldn’t justify pushing the beast around. I’ll be back the second they get the frame under 5lbs (in the largest size).

Ellsworth has had customer service issues. Mostly due to their horrible warranty record and Tony, to be honest. They are pushing a Lifetime Warranty on their frames, first thing that comes up on the site (but no link to details), so that might be solved. They obviously are acknowledging it was an issue with their website. The basic yet proven suspension design works and has proven to work over many years/rides/reviews. This bike is a production prototype so hopefully the specs will change to meet current trends. The bike has an obviously steep head angle and high BB. Not sure anyone will use the “adjustable” shock mounts because every “adjustment” will REQUIRE a different fork to even be ride-able.

I kind of want to stick up for ellsworth a little bit, not their supposedly terrible customer service or rude founder, but their bikes. I am one of the few lucky folk to have not just ridden but owned an ellsworth, in fact a 2002 Dare, the one everyone lusted over with the tribal tattoo paint (http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6304585/). It is one of the best riding bikes I’ve ever ridden (owned various specialized, currently on a blur), the rear end was incredibly suppler and response and, as I think the founded of Ancilloti (?) said, you need a degree of flex in the rear end for tracking. If this bike rides as well as mine, albeit better HA and wheelbase, it’ll be a fantastic bike. I really don’t care that the back end looks the same as 10 years ago. Strip a car down and the suspension will look the same as a long time ago, because it works. Its just a shame they’re so slow to respond to the market, and then put a front derailleur mount on it!

If you have a bike designed to be a downhill, freeride, and enduro bike, you’ll end up with a bike that at best sucks at 2 out of the 3 and most likely sucks at all 3.

You all are freaking unbelievably. Pick any post about fat bikes, road disc brakes, or a drivetrain adding another cog, and the comments are saturated with complaints about “the marketers ramming something unneeded down our throats” and here you all are complaining about a company that’s NOT doing that. Listen to yourselves you shameless hypocrites.

Ellsworth has no brand mojo. Define it any way you want but their sales are going down year after year. Blame the design, Tony, frame details, customer service, market… whatever. They are not considered cool anymore and they are dying. You can say their frame design work great but nobody wants to buy it. They have been overrun by progressive brands in a saturated market. Look at a kick ass bike brand like Norco. Amazing riding bikes, look great, long term history… and they barely grow in the USA market each year (at least they are growing and not shrinking). Kona is in a rut and going down now… great bikes but something is off with brand loyalty. Smart brands go after an emotional connection with their customers in a limbic response. Less technical and more emotional (ex: Apple, Enve, Transition, CrankBros, Specialized, Lezyne). Brands like KHS, Jamis, Ellsworth have no emotional trigger with their customers. It’s all spec, value or nothing current to offer (Ellsworth). Smart brand managers understand this. Ellsworth can pull themselves out of this rut with something new to offer in design and emotional connection with the brand in marketing… and make some money.

Von Kruiser makes a good point. It’s been years since I’ve heard anyone at a DH race or bike park talking about Ellesworth, yet alone someone ACTUALLY RIDING a Dare.

Von Kruiser makes excellent points. I am just not sure something “new” is needed rather than the perception that something new is being provided (design vs function which may not need a change). I’ll frankly say Ellsworth’s suspension design lacks visual strength. We don’t associate strength with long arms, significantly differing from the “2 triangle” norm we’ve grown accustom to. This is the suspension’s “failure”, whether or not it is or isn’t strong enough is beside the point.

This can all be solved with marketing. But bike marketing is expensive and frankly difficult, especially for a small boutique brand. You are chasing a very fickle market, pushed by a minority with very fluid trends (yesterday it was 29er, today Enduro, tomorrow ?).

Personally, I don’t think a compromised bike like this is ever a good idea. I also don’t think Ellsworth needs to change their basic suspension design from a technical perspective. But, I do know they probably can’t afford the market blitz and rider sponsorship needed to push their bikes, as they are, back to popularity. It may very well be cheaper to come up with something “new” (i.e. the same as 90% of other good bikes).

While I agree that the longer rocker looks ugly, it does also look like it has superior suspension dynamics. The long rocker means the two horizontal bars and the two vertical bars of the 4-bar are closer to parallel, which in theory should allow the rear wheel to track better. I have never ridden an Elseworth, so no idea if that computes to better performance in real life.

I say wait until the take over shows up in their production runs that they claim will be in the usa. Hopefully tony will have less and less to do with the company that bears his name. Ellsworth has always been a boutique bike, or at least thrust themselves into that ring back in the day. About 15 years ago you could find them in the hi end shops-not anymore. Sure, lots of brands came up or stepped up to offer some really amazing bikes, but the decline and rider distrust was born of bad design bad quality and absolutely horrible customer care. The shop I worked at ordered 5 dares and they arrived with cracks along all the head tube and seat tube welds…brand new, in the box. Pics were taken, calls were made. Tony’s response was that they were fine when they left the factory and it’s not his problem! Lifetime warranty if he’s in the mood. Every Ellsworth sold came back within the first season with a frame failure and sometimes it was warrantied, most of the time not. Customers were lost, brand confidence was lost. Yeah, norco’s snap like twigs, but they’re warranty and customer care is awesome. That’s what brings riders back. With brands like Santa cruz, yeti and ibis, it’s gonna take lots of rabbits out of hats for Ellsworth to gain any foothold back into a market that’s left them behind a decade ago.