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Fresh off a plane from Australia, we’ve just had the chance to sample Babici’s Corsa Collezione kit.
Whose? I, for one, hadn’t heard of Babici. An Australian company, the Babici is inspired by the history and the romance of European road cycling. Using Italian fabrics and pads, the Corsa Collezione is “a no expense spared production that ticks all the boxes in quality, design, style, comfort, function and price.” That’s aiming pretty high- can the antipodal upstarts set “set the benchmark for… the cycling apparel category at large ?” Hit the jump for our early thoughts…
At the center of the collection are the Corsa Bib Knicks (shorts). The substantial Italian fabric and pad are impressive from the moment they come out of their little fabric envelope.The Italian-made multi-density and multi-thickness pad is dense but was extremely comfortable on its first outing.The Flazarego is just one of several color combinations available in the Corsa Collezione. The full zip with bottom garage, three standard rear pockets, and a water-resistant fourth pocket all seem well thought-out.The jersey fabric is almost translucent and should be perfect come summer. The fit is unapolagetically race-oriented.Tall Corsa Calzini socks with a cool 70s feel. They're light and handsome and- while they don't exactly match- complete the pakcage.
Look for a review before long. In the meantime: www.babici.cc.
Nice looking garments and they appear to be well-made. However, the “Making of a Better Brand” story shared (on the babici website) by their founder is one of the most uncanny pieces of marketing drivel I’ve seen. He touts how they conducted a customer/prospective customer survey and –in his words “What we didnt tell you was that the fabrics, stitching, detailing, chamois and manufacturing are the best of breed, as we went in search of facilities and suppliers that could only deliver to this level. We did this because you wanted better quality from a brand that can deliever it.” –now, we see all this “Tessuta in Italia” images and Italian colors elegantly woven into the pixel landscape of the the Babici site, and we see “Italian fabrics” and “Italian chamois”– and now this guy is apparently ready to come clean with customers about where their clothes are manufactured… yet he doesn’t have the wherewithal to come out and say it. Rapha doesn’t say it either (and they put “Made in China” stickers in their clothes so that you can easily remove that brand element and pretend you didn’t see it). People can buy whatever they want to buy, and stuff manufactured in China can be of very high-quality, but if a company goes to the trouble of making a statement to clarify their brand and their products in response to a customer survey and goes on to present a few paragraphs of cagey B.S. such as Mr. Babakian does… well, I can only speak for myself… he won’t get my business if for no other reason that the guy is showing a serious lack of integrity. Furthermore, not only does he not address directly the whereabouts of their apparel manufacturing –he has the audacity to claim this “no expense spared” line. Perhaps it’s true that the factories they are using in China and all the supply chain that comes with it is more expensive than having a top Italian, or other European country (since you claim to adore the Euro cycling heritage) to make your apparel, but I’m very skeptical of that. I would actually respect Rapha and Babici and a lot of other apparel –and bicycle manufacturers if they would just put the Chinese flag on their sites and introduce us to some of the Chinese people who make their stuff. Hey, if they are really good at what they do, then I’d love to see more of their operation, see some of their faces, and know their stories… sure, maybe some of those stories are a little ugly wherein individual rights and communism clash, but maybe their are some good stories too. In any case, how about some honesty and integrity. Lastly, if this company is actually having their apparel made in Italy, then they need some help with their writing –as their is comes across as clear as the mud on the cobbles of the Arenberg.
Marc 2
12 years ago
Norm,
I hope that your comment doesn;t go unheard. It was really thoughful.
Robin
12 years ago
I don’t see how saying or not saying where a product is made says anything about a company’s integrity. Standing behind their product and providing excellent or at least competent customer service does speak to a company’s integrity.
I certainly see no reason whatsoever that a company has to put a Chinese flag on their clothing. Likewise I don’t see any reason for a Taiwanese flag, Romanian flag, or US flag to be there. The presence of a flag doesn’t say anything about the quality of a product nor does it say anything about the manufacturer. I certainly don’t need to see the person who makes my bibs. That doesn’t say anything about the skill of that person. For the record, I’ve never seen pics or videos of the people that make my underwear, shoes, toothbrush, sheets, fleece jacket, textbooks, car, or anything in my house or anything that I’ve owned. Since when is that a requirement? If people are going to make such requirements of the companies that make bike kit, people better demand such things of all the companies that make all the stuff that any given person uses, otherwise the people demanding as much not only look like hypocrites, they look like elitists and snobs. The person who sews your underwear together is no different than the person who sews your bib knickers together or the person who bolts the cylinder head to the engine of your car in the factory.
GeorgeP
12 years ago
Both have a point, and I think Norm is tapping into a problem that’s getting more exposure through Apple and Foxconn. As social media grows, corporations are being made much more accountable through democratic outcry, I think we’ll start to see a lot more companies being forced to talk about China. Robin is right, people shouldn’t need to put a flag on their website, or clothing, but I think the underwear concept is a little different. If I buy a 3 pack of hanes for 8.99 at Target, I understand that this is likely made as cheaply as possible, but if I want to be part of the free market, and reward companies with integrity with my hard earned cash, I realize I’m going to have to pay a premium. Say if I want wool underwear from happy sheep, and well payed textile workers, that premium probably costs 80 bucks for one pair. Babici is charging 190 bucks for some bib shorts, which is within the industry norm (unfortunately), and really hitting heavy with the Italian connection. If they’re going to flaunt that as they do, and stay silent about everything else, they protect they’re brand a little, but people like Norm and I participate in the free market, and we are allowed to demand clarity business structure before we hand over our hard earned money.
This is SLIGHTLY off topic but please bear with me…. I was watching the Track World Cup Race from London today and the Chinese did VERY well. My question is…. what do THEY ride? I tried very hard to see the name on the side of the frames but wasn’t terribly successful. The women’s bikes had a multi-letter name in small yellow print. I noticed a man on a bike that said MUC in large letters and I’m wondering if that is because he, or they, might be sponsored by MUC-off.
The point of all this is, the Chinese are moving up the ladder in virtually every endeavor they participate in. I’m guessing if they felt they needed Italian bibs, or bikes for that matter, they’d be on them. What I’m saying is…. maybe we SHOULD be desiring these Chinese products because in fact, they can be damn good!
While they don’t go out of their way to emphasize it, Rapha doesn’t hit the fact that some of their apparel is made in China. They even profiled one of their manufacturing facilities on their website:
@Carl – Of course they are doing well in many endeavors. They are a country of 1 billion + people. The numbers are on their side.
Damiano
12 years ago
Norm makes a very valid point and I agree with his thoughts 100%. Babici is indeed a brand of contradictions. Using a “a no expense spared production that ticks all the boxes in quality, design, style, comfort, function and price’ is a bold statement. Do they really believe China has higher standards in clothing manufacturing than Italy or even Australia?
I have stumbled across another brand that once again promotes the ever increasing “European Heritage’ tagline for their apparel, but at least they manufacture in Italy from Italian fabrics and chamois. Check them out http://www.cervorosso.com. From all accounts they are the real deal.
Jan Z
12 years ago
Looks like lovely stuff. But it misses the mark in terms of the name. Babici sounds like something you’d be loath to have your club mates find out is your grandmother’s pet name for you. And the type design and emblazoning of the name across the bum is gauche and defeats the ‘simplicity and elegance’ this brand aims for. Also the blue ‘B’ circular logo looks like the logo of a frozen yogurt chain. This brand smells of the lameness of the owner, and it smells like too much cologne.
NormNot
12 years ago
Norm, an opinion expressed well, but I am not really sure what the point is.
Most people reading this would be riding a diamond framed bike of English invention, possibly with Italian angles, and mostly like manufactured in Taiwan. The running gear was possibly originally designed in France and Italy but manufactured god knows where by mostly likely a Japanese company. Safely held on the road by French or German branded tyres made in Taiwan or China. And you see some irony that we are wearing Aussie owned, Italian/swiss inpired, made in China clothes?
I don’t really care where it is made, as long as the quality is there. And with three sets of Babici Jersey and knicks, I am happy to say the quality is there. Thank you Mr Babici, aussie domiciled, italian inspired, chinese manufacturing internationalist!
Mike
12 years ago
@ Carl. Same thing happened in the last Olympic year in XC mountain biking. Chinese riders began to appear on the podium as if ‘from out of nowhere.’ Agree with speedy, with a talent pool that large, they can afford to throw a lot of eggs at the wall and see which ones don’t break…
I won’t be buying any Bibici either. I just hate the brand name. Typical Australian marketing misstep (and I am an Aussie…)
I was intrigued by the style of this gear having never heard of it. After reading some of your comments in particular @norm and checked out their website. I was quite taken by their actual transparency. Who else does this? For the life of me i can’t see how these guys are any different from any other top name cycling brand. I also don’t think they play down any foreign interest. Their gear looks great, they import their material from Italy, who cares where they make it. I also befriended them on facebook and there is a thread on how much of a tool @norm is from what is clearly a loyal bunch of aussie customers. Clearly they are liked in aussieland.
Maybe i’m missing something here, but why would Rapha and Babici hide the fact that they manufacture across the globe to deliver superior quality products. Perhaps the quality in China is better than Italy, France, Switzerland. After all, they get more practice at it.
Anyways, i for one will invest in any company that is wanting to deliver quality regardless of where they make their stuff, and i’m not even an aussie @mike. PS: you should check your facts before posting, you can’t even spell the name. Perhaps you guys have jumped the gun a little bit here.
Also, @carl you make a great point about the visible chinese emergence. I think they will excel in anything they do. Good luck to them.
baljeetd
12 years ago
I agree there can and should be global concerns in this globalised market. But these harsh criticisms don’t make sense:
1. Babici kit is keenly priced for a “premium” brand. The design & high-tech fabrics – the defining elements of the product – are high quality Australian & Italian respectively. The stitching is not the essence of the product, and just needs to be in line with the quality of the design & fabic. This is slightly different to Apple, because the complex components and assembly are more significant. Also, we have no reason to believe Babici is doing nothing more that helping keep costs down for them and us, while arguably positively supporting the Chinese market. Would you rather they were hand stitched in Switzerland to the same quality?
2. Saying you don’t like a name doesn’t mean the product is lacking in any way. I’d wager that more people like it than don’t. BMW is a pretty boring name. Their marketing is superlative. Check this out:
I’m looking forward to buying my first kit this or next season…
pete
12 years ago
why is a product made in china automatically deemed as low-quality? many products that you use like apple computers and rapha clothing are exceptionally made by chinese workers. in fact, rapha stands by its product by offering a lifetime warranty. that means if a stitch fails or the fabric tears they’ll fix it for free. what other cycling clothing company does that???
Kev
12 years ago
Babici is the best cycling apparel available, the fact that the company uses cheap labour from China is irrelevant.
Michael
12 years ago
This thread makes no sense. it reads like every competitor rep is on here beating down on what seems to be a good thing. So far Bikerumour is saying this stuff is decent kit. I’ll go with a credible source. If i can get good kit for decent prices, i wouldn’t care if it was made in hell.
Ben
12 years ago
What a bunch of hypocrites. It’s all made in China or Taiwan.
1. Rapha – made in China
2. Cannondale – made in China
2. Sugoi – made in China
3. Scott – made in China
4. Castelli made in China
5. Nike – made in China
6. Adidas – made in China
7. Skins – made in China
8. 2XU – made in China
9. Giordana – made in China
10. Descente – made in China
11. Garneau – made in China
12. Capo Forma – made in China
13. GORE – made in China
If you want something exotic, go to:
1. Hincapie – made in Columbia
2. Assoa – made in Romania
As for that rubbish at CervoRosco, find out where they are really made? Latvia?
Matt
12 years ago
Norm’s makes an excellent point. He isn’t saying that because it is made in China it is low quality, but it is dishonest to tout your product’s Italian fabrics, design and heritage and not come clean about it not being made in Italy. Especially when you can purchase equipment that was made in Italy for the same money. If they said, here are our Chinese workers and here is their work, a lot of people would feel more inclined to dish out the money and wouldn’t wonder about the quality. A lot of people are willing to spend extra money on gear that isn’t made in China, because of the perceptions of quality and because they want to support fair wage manufacturing.
Thank you for your passionate debate and your interest in the Babici brand.
Whilst we understand the sentiments of global manufacturing, doing this without publicly declaring it is against our local laws to which we abide by 100%. Publicly accusing us of not doing so is premature and clearly an indecent attack.
Every garment we produce at Babici is tagged with the origins of assembly. Not a disposable tag, but one that is actually stitched in, which we design with great care and passion. Those who own Babici gear will know this.
We have published our stance on global manufacturing on our website to fulfill anyones concerns about lack of transparency and dare we say it, integrity.
We hope the indecent people on this thread will soon realise that their comments are completely false.
Babici.
KevNOT
12 years ago
Babici is “not” the best. Please refrain from imposing your beliefs onto others. For me, assos and rapha has yet to fail me where I has found faults with Castelli. Capo would be a mid range choice for me.
Last thought….. considering how good the Chinese are becoming in a number of sports, and the fact that they seem to be using some of their own products in doing so…. maybe it’s time for Western manufacturers and distributors to just come clean and tell us this is a GREAT product made in China. I just don’t know if the Western buying public is ready for that.
I watched a little more track from London today and saw a Chinese woman on a LOOK. Don’t know what the other bikes they ride are or where they are made.
norm
12 years ago
NormNot et al –well, my initial comment could have been more succinct, but the comment AND some of the other comments have produced a response! Babici has published a piece on manufacturing in China and they even included a picture of the Chinese flag! Kudos to them for doing so. But they shied away from addressing the “no expense spared” marketing spiel and though they talk about things like “wonderful human centered value” they don’t address the prickly subject which is that the Chinese people are considered subjects of their government. That is the issue of rights. Go look at the “Stories” section on their site!
If you read the Babici piece “MADE IN CHINA DISPELLING THE MYTH” — you may note that this new plea for understanding the China equation on still resonates some b.s. in that it’s unlikely that they manufacture products “all over the world” –they have less than 10 garments maybe a few more and the primary differentiator is color –I doubt that have the same kit made “all over the world” –and I presume that the fabrics and chamois are not made expressly for Babici, rather Babici are just buying those wholesale and not having them manufactured especially for them (there’s a distinction there). Their point about Chinese manufacturing having a capability of high quality is not news to me (I made no point against that in my original comment). Rather, my main concern about Made-in-China is that while companies using Chinese manfucturing are helping drive one of the most intense capitalist economies in the world (I think that’s good), that capitalist economy is on a leash by a government that doesn’t recognize the individual rights of its citizens (I think that’s bad). So, while helping the businesspeople and the workers in China is great, but fueling the communist machine seems dangerous. Other people are free to disagree.
I’ll also add, because I obviously have no talent for brevity, Babici doesn’t address another of my points against their marketing –that is, that they are surely not a “no expense spared” apparel company. That should be dropped from their copywriting… it’s fluff, it’s meaningless, and no decent copywriter would have let that pass for publication. What’s more, Chinese manufacturing has gained its manufacturing prowess because of inexpensive labor, that is, it helps companies save manufacturing costs.
A word on other costs and the values therein: I still buy some Rapha stuff because –even though I suspect they have high margins tracing back to “expenses spared” via manufacturing in China and other low-wage countries –their marketing staff, apparel designers, web and print designers are ne plus ultra –and I value that. Recruiting and keeping those people is surely expensive. Those people help them curate the one of the top brands. But, I’m going to cease buying Rapha stuff –because I, personally, don’t respect the Chinese government and endorsing Made in China, in my opinion, endorses the Chinese communist system (I have increasing concerns about my government too, of course, but it still recognizes individual liberties to a great extent). This question speaks to the old Prime Directive from Star Trek and you can choose whether to follow that directive or not.
Well, this is another comment that’s not succinct! Sorry folks! I don’t have a proofreader here to cut-down my word count and focus my message. My compliments to the editors of this site for permitting it –I promise that I’ll get a blog or something soon so I can rant on my own turf.
pete
12 years ago
@norm
the majority of your argument is rooted in speculation. how are you privy to the inner working of babici’s buyers and suppliers??? less talk. more action.
completely agree with @pete. no one cares for your political agenda @norm. last we checked this was a cycling website. good on Babici for not dropping to your pathetic level. they have demonstrated integrity over and above expectation. this type of irrelevant banter should be removed from sites where we come to enjoy our sport.
Benthet**t
12 years ago
@Ben, you are one dopey t**t, there was no mention of Santini, who produces their garments in Italy. China may be producing reasonable quality goods these days, but I bet you would rather a European made car than a chinese one!
Manufacturing in China is a cost cutting exercise, and Babici’s ‘no expense spared’ attitude is absolute rubbish. They admit it is more cost effective to produce their clothing in china and not Australia, a total contradiction to ‘no expense spared’.
The clothing may good, but the bull%*^& is even better!
spokejunky
12 years ago
That is some nice looking kit. I have to agree that materials and process are getting more central to Chinese companies. A question should be for the manufacturers that are moving or even starting their business in China is how do you justify supporting a government that has a history with intellectual property theft, exchange rate fixing and poor labor standards? Given that Babici’s public stance on global manufacturing is “…embracing the talents of humanity regardless of geographic locality is a wonderful human centered? value they resides deep within the Babici philosophy.” I would think that touting a humanc centered value is in contrast to turning a blind eye to unfair or even cruel labor practices.
I know Babici is getting the brunt of the critique here, but my comments are for all who manufacture in China. On a last note, if businesses actually think they are gaining ground by going to China you may want to look up “Intellectual Property” practices in China before you hand over the keys.
JohnP
12 years ago
Quite an interesting thread going on here which clearly has nothing to do with cycling. Take a good look around your possessions. At least 80% of what you own (let alone cycling gear) is produced in China or an Asian state. Every single debate posted here is irrelevant. China with it’s amazing population drives forwards and manages it’s own destiny. Same goes to India. Like it or not people, you need to face reality.
You talk about suppressed labour costs? Well how the hell do you feed 1B people? You see, the armchair experts out there who believe in the free and prosperous world should pull their heads in a little and save their comments to their daily monologue with CNN. Your uneducated and ignorant rant about global economics is seriously flawed. Whilst you get angrier about the rise of the peasant into a middle class society, just focus on your own backyard where your western democratic capitalist greed has brought the world to it’s knees.
Be grateful for countries like China who deliver goods that can be traded on the global market that fuels economic growth. From Walmart to the corner store, businesses rely on profit to operate. And whilst you probably disagree with profitability in business, think about your buying behaviour and how your bargain hunting mentality continues to drive down profits and recess the retail sector.
So, in the words of Gandhi (yes an Indian) “be the change you want to see in the world”. Either migrate to China and run for president and overhaul the global economic structure, or accept the fact that the world functions as it does and at the end of the day, it just works.
jamie
12 years ago
BRAVO @johnp. hope that puts these clowns in their place. I may add that there is nothing wrong with wanting things made in italy, france or whatever. But you cant be a hypocrite and not buy it at full price. Im sure people like @norm and @mike don’t pay a premium for their cycling gear. On another note, you will probably find the people working in the manufacturing arm of Santini or any other factory in italy are non native italian , migrant workers from east europe, africa or even asia. PS: This babici kit looks sweet,
keir
12 years ago
Why are we getting so upset? Is not as if European or American bicycle manufacturers are pushing their heritage while building bikes in Taiwan or China? Oh sh.t, hang on….
NormNot
12 years ago
Norm, matey, goes to show that the internet is powered by opinion. Wow, enough there to keep it going for a few days!
You know there has to be some good quality affordable gear for us regular guys. I don’t know how much you ride Norm, but have you noticed that cycling gear is expensive? Especially here in Australia. Now maybe Babici is not the best (do they actually say that they are? Pretty subjective), and maybe Mr Babici should be flogged for the gall of having their gear Made in China. It is agreed that the people their have fewer rights, but also maybe, just maybe by brands like Babici going there and doing business is helping open up the country and helping the citizens to gain new rights.
I am just your ordinary worker, with two kids and like most Sydney residents I have a mortgage that could choke a horse. I can’t afford to buy my gear from OS, in fact my trusty old bike is a 1995 clunker that is dire need of new handle bar tape. (The shame.)
So after trying a lot of clothing brands over the last 36 years of in the saddle, I have to say that I actually like the gear Babici sells. I shall say outright that I admire the Babici ethos, their designs and their commitment to quality. I also like their clever use of social networking. I have found their gear to be comfortable, durable, great looking and well made. And I am pretty sure that if I was ever to have an issue I am pretty sure that Mr Babici would look after their customers.
So lets stop this silly argument, respect what Babici is (some bloke who designs and sells good looking/ high quality cycling gear at a good price) rather than what I am pretty it isn’t – the political wing of an evil empire dedicated to bringing down Europe and Mankind. I think I shall just hop on the old clunker and go for a ride.
Jackie.S
12 years ago
What an amazing thread. The only thing not covered was religion. @norm you reek of competitor. you make points about the industry that us normal cyclists wouldn’t care for. I’m afraid your beat up on this brand will probably slingshot them to stardom. I personally think their clothing is lovely. Well done Babici.
Jim
12 years ago
Not a fan of writing the brand name across the back of the knicks and at 350AUD for the kit without postage it’s kind’ve pricey….
One of the guys I ride with has the kit and quality is definitely up there although there are plenty of options available for this sort of money.
As far as the advertising goes it’s a load of BS and nobody really believes it and until now I didn’t think people actually read it.
norm
12 years ago
@Jackie S. –Good God! If you know of a competitor in the cycling apparel industry who manufactures their apparel solely in human-rights-respecting countries and who doesn’t write marketing material in a way that insults intelligent consumers… well, by any means, please tell me which company that is! I would love to go work for them. For the moment, however, I’m cooped up in a financial firm designing software.
However, in the interest of openness: I confess that my mom was a professional seamstress (though not in the cycling apparel industry) and I have asked her to repair a couple of my kits over the years. Importantly, I must also report that having my mom perform these repairs was not a “no expense spared” solution.
@NotNorm –respect for Babici will come when they learn how to talk straight. That’s not to say that I don’t wish them success. I never had anything negative to say about the quality or design or pricing of their stuff. They just seem really awkward and confused in regard employing the English language in an intelligent manner (most consumers won’t find that a reason not to buy their products, but it irks me). As far as respect goes, I certainly won’t respect you, NorNorm. To dismiss the Chinese manufacturing equation as part of “a silly argument” is an insult to the people who fight against and suffer under oppression. On this subject, I have conveyed my belief that there may be some benefits to the people of China. But, it’s not a silly argument. I do hope that there is a good dose of irony in your chosen commenter handle and that you are indeed not-the-norm on this point.
Jackie.S
12 years ago
Well, thank you for coming clean @norm. We now know that your agenda was fuelled by your apparent disliking of marketers and your disapproval of the Chinese government. But hating capitalists and communists on a cycling blog is just a little tasteless. People like me ride bikes to escape all this nonsense and are in love with the cycling story. I personally was very upset to see how you had hijacked this simple post into your arrogant and self centered political views. I’m also deeply offended by your continuous referral to the Chinese as oppressors. Whilst we live under the banner of freedom of speech, hijacking blogs through an alias is hardly practicing your constitutional rights.
So now that we know what upsets @norm, we can all go back to what we love, cycling. May i suggest that you search for politically aligned forums where people with real knowledge on these issue can put you in you place. I also believe that you should apologise to the people on this thread for your vulgar accusations. I hope you are banned from this blog.
In the meantime, i’m buying some of this gear to show my support for great products that make me happy.
NormNot
12 years ago
Norm, I appreciate your sentiment, but you have missed my point. The silly argument is to take your venom out on a small brand like Babici. There are much bigger fish to fry, and disliking Babici’s use of language is not a traditional way to free people from the oppressive natures of a ham-fisted government. But I could be wrong. I like irony, it makes me smile.
norm
12 years ago
@NotNorm –If I missed you point, it’s because you wrote “lets stop this silly argument”. If you intended to urge me to stop making critical comments, you should have said “stop making critical comments”. When you use muddy language, people won’t get your point. Also, I’ll have you know, since it seems to be lost on you, that my comments would have ceased long ago had both Babici and youself not replied with such off-the-mark responses to my comments. You provided rich fodder for my keyboard.
This thread stands as a good lesson for companies (big and small) who need help understanding how to communicate openly with consumers –and the importance of doing so. It’s also a good example for consumers who think that speaking-up in forums like this one can’t persuade a company to respond and –at least try– to communicate without all the inane opacity that marketing departments foist upon us.
Meanwhile –on the China front– I’ll heed your advice by seeking out some literature on “traditional ways” of fighting oppression. Indeed, tradition is crucial in such endeavors. I’ll also see if I can get my head around your skillful equivocation of the China argument and the marketing communications argument. That was a most artful statement on your part. And, I’m glad you like irony… and, in case you like sarcasm too, I’ve loaded this paragraph with a good dose of it.
.
Fresh off a plane from Australia, we’ve just had the chance to sample Babici’s Corsa Collezione kit.
