Interbike 2012: Kappius Hubs Updates Bearing Design, Ramps Up Production

ditto.

moving it overseas will only push lead times out even further.

plus that hub looks kinda difficult to clean

@Swangarten – Agreed. If Dr and Robert would pay attention, he’s manufacturing them HIMSELF. If he were to have another US machine shop do the work then the cost would just go up more and most likely still wouldn’t meet production volume needs with just one shop.

All you internet experts need to realize that the US does not set the standard on quality… Other companies laugh at us for our arrogance and stupidity. But by all means, please post details of your 100% US made bikes with cost and parts break down. I am intrigued…

@ Matt M (the expert)
Moving production overseas is cheaper, but it comes at the cost of the environment and human rights
Using near slave labor and polluting as much as they want.
I will be buying “MADE in the USA” Industry 9 hubs.

Industry 9, Chris King, & White Industries don’t have any problem making competitively priced hubs in the USA.
I would say Chris King does set the standard on quality.

@Swangarten & Matt M – First off, I’m not an internet expert. I’m a machinist. And I’m only speaking about SoCal machine shops. So bear that in mind when you consider what you’re saying. And get off your high horse about costing on a complete bike and don’t put words in other people’s mouth. I’m in the fortunate position of being at capacity with a project, so what I’m saying isn’t sour grapes. It’s disappointment that profit has been placed first in the bike industry, yet again.

You guys are spouting the standard lines people use to move production overseas. Yes, they’re cheaper. Yes, their quality can be just as good. I don’t deny either of those things. And there’s no one shop that does machining, ano and carbon. Anywhere. The Asian companies typically have one person managing each project so you only have to deal with them. But when something doesn’t meet spec, boy, you’re in for a ride as they chase it down (Been there. Done that. Not going back to save a buck). Stateside you might actually have to deal with two or three different companies. The horror!

He wants to make a cool product with the minimal labor and cost involved. I get that. But what moral compromises are you willing to make for that end? Terrible wages? Check. Unsafe working conditions? Child labor? Check. No environmental safeguards? Check. I can’t personally justify that for something as basic as a bicycle hub. Especially in the limited quantities the aftermarket companies sell.

/rant

Man, there are a lot of “experts” here with no knowledge. No one here knows where Kappius is having the work done overseas. No one here knows what the wages, labor practices, and environmental practices of that shop overseas are. No one here knows the financial situation of Kappius, nor does anyone here no who Kappius has talked to and in what towns, counties, states, or countries Kappius talked to people about production.

If you “have to believe” something, then you’ve likely done so without the benefit of critical thought or without the luxury of the facts surrounding the decision.

$1000 for a hub that doesn’t measure power or do anything else? No thanks.

It should be noted that CK and WI are doing their own machining and producing there own stuff and have been for a long time. They’ve arrived at that point by having machined and produced other things, in addition to bike stuff. For whatever reason– a reason that no one here likely knows–Kappius can’t scale up their production. It’s a bad argument to allege that if CK and WI can do it, anyone can.

Thanks for the comments everyone. Hopefully I can explain some of our business decisions to ease the level of confusion out there.

My dad and I started this as a way to design a more durable, easy to maintain and reliable hub. After numerous friends got caught in the backcountry with broken free hubs and no way to pedal out, we knew there was a better way.

Our hubs are currently made in the US. The aluminum in Oregon and the steel drives in New York. This was after searching high and low for competitive prices. Even with this, our hub are expensive. You’d think with the current state of manufacturing in the US this would have been easier to do. We understand the price is high, this is simply due to the cost of the components to us. This is partly due to the relatively low quantities compared to other industries. Some companies wouldn’t talk to us unless we were doing more than 30,000 units a month. Our current aluminum supplier has had issues with us supplying us our needs, so this isn’t a purely cost based move although that is a factor in the decision. Believe me, if we could do this in the US at a competitive price we would by all means.

For example our steel drive costs us in the neighborhood of $300 per hub. If anyone know of wire EDM or DMLS companies that can do it for less, I’m all ears. US companies such as King and I9 have these machines in shop which makes things much easier for them. We have a small machine shop to refine our aluminum and carbon prototypes but by no means have the ability to go to full production. We aren’t a machine shop, we are enthusiastic cyclists with separate full time jobs but the desire to make cycling more enjoyable.

Increased quantities will decrease costs but the only place that we have found that can do it is in Asia. We are fully aware of the difficulties producing there but have high hopes with the suppliers we have found and they have good reviews from other US companies that they produce products for. We fully expect to make a trip over seas (or a couple) to make sure things are being produced at the standards we require.

On another note, it looks like the XX1 cassette will be even easier to modify for compatibility with our hub.

Brady
Brady @ Kappiuscomponents.com

@Brady – Thank you for the thoughtful response. Try calling around some SoCal machine shops. I think you’ll find a lot of underutilized mills, lathes and even EDM machines people are desperate to get running. I know White Industries has (or had) a wire EDM they ran small batch jobs on, and Paul Component does a ton of outside machine work. Just two options to get you running.

Best of luck, it’s a cool product, and I’d love to see it happen.

Get a business license, act like a machine shop, and you’ll get much better prices.

“…in this case Kappius.”

@almost all of you

Interesting your concern about working and envronmental conditions on the “overseas” (meaning outside US?).
Please considerer that this conditions just meets the demands of US companies to supply things we all buy at the lowest possible price. (that would explain that condition…)

Besides, US is the second carbon dioxide emitter, both per capita and total emissions, just behind China. So “overseas” will almost in any case mean more environmental friendly.

Hope your concerns have some “real” action (beside writing some good willing post)…