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Shimano declares “There is no single truth,” launches Drivetrain Advisor to help find yours

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Photos c. Shimano

Still on the fence about going 1x? In an attempt to provide needed advise (and sway riders over to the Team Blue side), Shimano has launched a new microsite devoted to the single and the double. In addition to all of the details on their 1x and 2x technology, Shimano created a “Drivetrain Advisor” that will guide you to your proper set up after answering a number of questions. If that’s not enough motivation to keep or ditch the double, a number of clips detailing why specific athletes chose their current set up may provide some clarity…

Like most online tests, the Shimano Drivetrain Advisor result is only as good as the information put in. Which means you have to boil down your riding style into a few multiple choice questions. When I first took the quiz, it said I was 80% double/20% single. Then I took it again, changing the answer to a few questions slightly and I got the complete opposite – 20% double/80% single. Clearly this is more of a suggestion than a definitive answer.

To help with that, Shimano has a number of Riders’ Stories that get the opinion of some of the top pros like Julien Absalon (who prefers 1x).

To help with the component selection, the site also dives into Shimano’s drivetrain technologies like their Synchronized Shift system which uses one Di2 shifter to operate both front and rear derailleurs, as well as the pros and cons of single vs. double chainrings.

Whatever your choice of drivetrain or brand of drivetrain, the site seems like a solid source of information to help you make an informed decision.

drivetrainadvice.shimano.com

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64 Comments
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nigel
5 years ago

27.5″ or 29″. So shimano clearly doesn’t care that people with 26″ might want to change their drivetrain.

Huck
Huck
5 years ago
Reply to  nigel

Um ya…..if you have 26in wheels you haven’t bought a new bike in a LONG time. Sorry that companies target people who buy new products.

socially conscious and concerned
socially conscious and concerned
5 years ago
Reply to  nigel

27.5″ is sooooooo close to 26″ that you might as well just use that a reference. It’s not anywhere near 27.5″ in reality – I measured a bunch of wheels a while ago, averaged the sizes, and if you consider the 26 and 29 averages to be your reference points, 27.5 measures out to more like 26.8″.

EXODUX
5 years ago

My bikes with 27.5 wheels all measure at least 27.5, and none of them are plus size or run tires bigger than 2.3.
Funny you mentioned the comparison btw the two sized wheels. I had my 27.5 bike and my son and his friends 26ers on the bike rack yesterday, as I looked at all three bikes, I couldn’t help but notice, which I guess some don’t notice, the visual difference btw the 27.5ers and the 26ers.
I think next time the bikes are on the rack I’ll have to snap a picture.

socially conscious and concerned
socially conscious and concerned
5 years ago
Reply to  EXODUX

A 26″ wheel is physically larger than 26″, and a 29″ is much bigger than 29″ in reality, which is why I averaged the numbers out as reference points and then calculated the relative difference. If I could post an image here I’d show you the chart i made, comparing only examples with the same rim/tire model, size and pressure. My point I guess is that 650b is larger than 26″, but by a relatively small amount, and is nowhere near halfway compared to 29″.

knarc
knarc
5 years ago
Reply to  nigel

It’s all about marketing. 29ers exist since 80’s, all those years the industry was blind?. What about geometry, weight. In the past years industry told us many things for those. And what about if in some years, with a magical way, 26ers come back…never say never. Because companies targeting in peoples…who buy new products.

ELEVEN_g
5 years ago
Reply to  nigel

27.5 was the biggest con pulled by the bike industry to force a new standard and in turn forced obsolescence. Remember, up until that point it was ALL about how much better 29″ was. Now I accept that 29 has its place but 27.5…? Considering as @socially conscious and concerned points out, the ‘finished’ item is so close to 26, there is next to no point in it. Zero rush around here to ditch the 26″ bikes…. until they are truly not serviceable any more.

Chris MacDonald
Chris MacDonald
5 years ago

Claims no single source of truth, launches tool to clear confusion surrounding drivetrain choices, provides single source of truth (at least for their options).

The irony is palpable. 😀

mateo
mateo
5 years ago

Don’t forget that SRAM offers 2×11 GX with 34/24×10-42 that gives you a 630% range.

Or you can get 500% with Eagle and lose a chainring/shifter/derailleur/cable/housing.

i
i
5 years ago
Reply to  mateo

“Or you can get 500% with Eagle and lose a chainring/shifter/derailleur/cable/housing.”
yes, you can lose all those things, plus about $1000.

It’s kind of weird how, when talking about Eagle, no one ever seems to mention that an XO1 eagle cassette costs more than an entire XT drivetrain. And it’s a wear item that usually doesn’t last a year.

Marc L
5 years ago
Reply to  i

Eagle is pricey, yes, but don’t forget e*thirteen’s TRS+ and TRSr ($280/489% and $350/511%) OneUp’s Shark ($125/455%), Wolf Tooth’s GC49 ($120/445%), all of which work with existing 1×11 drivetrains.

Depending on where you’re starting from, most of these be a lot cheaper than adding a front shifter, derailleur, and two SLX- or XT-level chainrings.

PS- it looks like Shimano’s range numbers are calculated… differently. I get 418% for an 11-46 single- not their 436%. Anyone know where those numbers might have come from?

arp
arp
5 years ago
Reply to  i

“And it’s a wear item that usually doesn’t last a year.”

That has not been my experience, not even close, at least for an XX1 or XO1 level cassette. I get several seasons out of them. The harder steel used vs cheap punched cassettes probably the main reason. These things are engineering/machining masterpieces.

Christopher Michaels
Christopher Michaels
5 years ago
Reply to  arp

Our experiences have been similar. I had an xx1 cassette with 6,000 miles and it’s still going! Probably 1/3 mountain biking (in mountains) ans 2/3 fireroad and road. The xx1 chains also worth the extra cash, they just don’t stretch. The wear items are either the biggest cassette cog or an aluminum chainring, the latter being cheaper to replace, or use a steel ring up front!

Our limited experience with 12 speed has been good too, with a bit better shift lever feel. The derailleur cage is a bit closer to the ground but no issues with that yet. The 12 speed chain seems even stronger than the 11, which seems crazy, but our two shop staff with a few hundred miles on their bikes can barely fit the chain checker onto the chain.

There will always be folks out there who want the 2x or 3x setups, but 500% range is certainly good. Now for a viable 1x road setup?

Long comments, but this is to say my xx1 is up there with my favorite stuff ever, including DA7700 XTR952 and SRAM XO 9 speed.

whatever
whatever
5 years ago
Reply to  mateo

I built an entire NICE gravel bike (lots of little bling touches too) with SLX (triple which isn’t available with SRAM) drive train, and brakes for what that Eagle costs. Plus I like the gearing ALLOT better. Has much smaller gaps, and wider range. Lastly, I don’t like the way SRAM shifting works. I have 4 bikes, three already had Shimano, so I wasn’t about the build ONE SRAM bike, and have to try to rewire mental to switching back and forth for shifting action. Lastly, the Shimano was significantly less expensive for equivalent components.

Spend big on the “Eagle” stuff if you like, doesn’t matter to me. I’ll stay with Shimano.

Marc L
5 years ago

I have a lot of respect for Shimano, but this seems like a lot of effort to try to convince people that front derailleurs are still relevant. Sure for road and off-road touring doubles will remain viable but with loads of single-ring options available with 450-510% ranges it’s hard not to think that singles are going to be an excellent choice for the vast majority of riders. The reduced weight, cost, noise, and complexity certainly make them my choice for everything from gravel to backcountry/trail.

Yes, Di2 is a marvel, but it was anyone really looking to $300+ rear and $200 front XT-level derailleurs (plus everything else needed to make things work) as a solution?

It feels as though the shift to one-by has upset Shimano’s notoriously long-sighted product development roadmap, and I can sympathize. But one thing that I’ve learned from working with consumers is that trying to convince them that they want something that they don’t (regardless of the technical merits) will only cost you credibility. As a long-time fan of their products, I hope that Shimano can pivot in response to changes in the market.

lop
lop
5 years ago
Reply to  Marc L

You summarized it perfectly, honestly. I hope someone translates this to Japanese and sends it to the top brass. They need to pull it together and make some very aggressive moves to counter SRAM, even if it means making cassettes compatible with SRAM’s XD driver body. And for the love of god Shimano, pull your head out of the sand and make a “gravel” group already (and no – sticking a 46t big ring on a 110 crank doesn’t cut it).

Frank
Frank
5 years ago
Reply to  lop

If only their shifter ratios and MTB shifter ratios were compatible, you could mix and match and make any gravel drivetrain you’d want. This failure has baffled me for a decade.

lop
lop
5 years ago
Reply to  Frank

Well, a decade ago, they matched.

Then along came DynaSys…

Dylan
Dylan
5 years ago
Reply to  Frank

I’m not religious, but amen to that. For so long I’ve been wanting to change to drop bars on my commuter/tourer, a raleigh technium from the era when Tomac was running drop bars in MTB. First the issue was that there weren’t any drop-bar hydro brake levers. Then road hydro came along, but in 11 speed, while shimano MTB is still at 10. MTB catches up to 11 speed, but the cable pull is different. Finally a 10 speed road hydro group comes out (which apparently may be able to shift a 9 speed pre-DynaSys MTB derailleur across a 10sp cluster), and guess what? It only comes with flat-mount brakes, and there don’t seem to be any adapters to let me run them with my existing 180mm rotor! Yes, it’s all doable, but the time I buy all the parts separately after-market, I could almost buy a complete bike with Rival hydro.

Motarded450
Motarded450
5 years ago
Reply to  lop

I think Shimano’s pivot is e-bikes. They are going whole hog on e-power where SRAM has not gone after the modern, highly integrated e-bike segment. That said, this article does not address e-bike gearing at all

whatever
whatever
5 years ago
Reply to  Marc L

” The reduced weight, cost, noise, and complexity certainly”
I disagree with this. Bikes with !x systems cost more, aren’t less noisy. and a rear mech accommodating such a large range in the cassette produces it’s own problems, and that ignores differences in wear (have seen many claims that the largest rings on the cassettes wear very quickly).

JMHO

arp
arp
5 years ago
Reply to  whatever

“(have seen many claims that the largest rings on the cassettes wear very quickly)”

Similar to my statement above, I have not experienced this at all. You do see faster wear on the single ring because you’re obviously not sharing the wear between multiple rings, but there are some stainless options (Wolf Tooth) that are available in some sizes to help address this if it is a concern. I just watch it and swap it out…which is super easy with the single.

Plus, I’m not sure which problems you are referring to with the large range derailleurs? My SRAM 11spd 1x derailleurs shift impeccably. My shimano 1x 10 conversion…not so much.

whatever
whatever
5 years ago
Reply to  arp

One of the things that immediately comes to mind as a problem for the rear mech, is that is has to be sooooo long, it’s going to be allot easier to catch it on objects. Beyond that, the long arm will amplify movements in the mech, so potentially easier to mis adjust, then the length of the cage will make it more easily bent. All that without considering any of the rest of the mech we don’t usually get into. I’m no mech engineer so will not make any proclamation on that.

Lastly, you mention using steel rings to cut down on the wear, but that along with the large size of the large rings negate any potential weight savings.

Again, JMHO. Thanks for the reasonable feedback.

TheFunkyMonkey
TheFunkyMonkey
5 years ago
Reply to  Marc L

On a day in which it was announced that Shimano’s bike business was down 17%+ in 2016 they are still trying to tell us 2x is better. Hmmm – wonder what’s wrong…

whatever
whatever
5 years ago
Reply to  TheFunkyMonkey

FWIW, it is better for some. Others will be happy with 1x.

TheFunkyMonkey
TheFunkyMonkey
5 years ago
Reply to  whatever

The 2x strategy and lack of innovation around 1x seems to be working for them if we base it on their latest earnings announcement…

bedampft
bedampft
5 years ago
Reply to  TheFunkyMonkey

Thats nonsense. As most “Bikers” you assume the whole world spins around Mtb. The Mtb market is smaler than 10%.

mech9
5 years ago

@Mark L – You nailed it with your last paragraph.

Shimano is so wholeheartedly trying to hold onto that road map, it’s costing them in more areas than they would ever know. Working/Managing a LBS I can tell you that we sell sram 10 to 1 over shimano when it comes to mtb components. The only shimano component that we have to make sure we keep in stock is their brakes (which are still the best IMO). Our shimano rep even knows it. He said their stubbornness with 2x has really created issues for them here in america where we are faster to adopt technologies than EU. You have Pro’s telling them “we don’t run 2x” “put a clutch on your CX/road groups so we can use them for cx” “stop pushing the front derailleur”.. It falls on deaf ears. You would have thought by now they would have seen the writing on the wall. When you have mtb frames that are literally no longer coming with FD mounts, you’d think you’d realize this is not just a “trend”. These days unless you are sponsored by shimano or a pro rider for them, you will not be running a shimano mtb group. How crazy is that? Shimano used to own mtb and reliability.

One more 2cent opinion, is that their current series of mtb components is not well executed. They say “yeah run it 1x” but man we cannot tell you how many issues we see with chainline and poor backpedal performance, chain tension, chain wear, pully wear, we see with the 9xxxx group run 1x. When you get dealer support their answer is almost always “well this group is really meant to be run as a 2x setup”.. Thanks shimano.

lop
lop
5 years ago
Reply to  mech9

A few years ago, I was working at one of the largest bike retailers in the PNW, when the Shimano NA execs dropped by for a visit with their rep. They sat down with us and asked us what our customers wanted. I was the first to speak, and I said “They want 1x drivetrains and clutch road derailleurs.”

The execs proceeded to argue with me about the merits of these products, making the case that 1x wasn’t necessary because their 2x was so good, eventually implying that it was our fault for not being better able to sell it to customers. We never even got to talk about the clutch-type road derailleur, because I was so busy defending OUR CUSTOMERS wants.

I remember having a similar conversation with some of the French representatives from Mavic, who stubbornly refused to acknowledge that customers were clamoring for Crossmax 29er wheels, despite the weight difference between 29er and 26. Imagine Pepe le Pew saying “But is heavier,” for two hours.

bedampft
bedampft
5 years ago
Reply to  mech9

That’s funny.
Here in Germany it’s the exact oppsite. We almost never sell Sram Pats in the aftermarket and 90% of all bicycles (Mtb, Road, City) sold and available have Shimano Groupset on them. Mountainbikes are 5% of all bikes sold in Germany. Most of those are around €800 to 1000,- with Shimano 3×10 SLX and 2×11 SLX and XT Groups. The stuff that breaking is regulary made by Sram.

That sad. We got different customers in Germany. Most Bikers would buy one allround-kind of bike, every 5 to 7 years. We have a lot of people riding bikes with older standards for 26″, Quickrelease wheels, and geometries for 2x/3x drivetrains.
Furthermore we have a diffrent riding style over here. You can ride where ever you want. Less then maybe 2% of all the countryside in Germany is restricted for bikes. Because of that, Bikeparks and Trailscenter are rare and not so popular around here. One half of germany is highlands, so you have a lot of up and down. This all demands a diffrent kind of bike. One where a 1x drivetrain paired with >140mm of travel doesn’t cut it.

Motarded450
Motarded450
5 years ago
Reply to  mech9

Mech9 “in america where we are faster to adopt technologies than EU” except for the e-bike market where Shimano sells 10-0 over SRAM. Shimano is aggressively attacking the ebike motor biz and has taken its eyes of the analog bicycle market. Smart move? who’s to say. Is America the only market Shimano develops product for, certainly not.

Dylan
Dylan
5 years ago
Reply to  mech9

“These days unless you are sponsored by shimano or a pro rider for them, you will not be running a shimano mtb group. How crazy is that? Shimano used to own mtb and reliability.”

That’s absurd. SRAM made big inroads in MTB OEM spec with 1X a few years ago, but Shimano are winning some of that back; just look at Giant bike spec and you will see that about 1/3 to 1/2 of them come with Shimano (I looked at the US site, but the same is true in my home market Australia). And as far as after-market goes, Shimano are absolutely killing it with the performance and prices on XT and SLX groupsets.

Jason
Jason
5 years ago

After taking the Shimano drivetrain advisor quiz, it spit out 80% double/20% single, but it got me thinking. Why, aside from that’s what Shimano offers, is the alternative to 1x a 2x instead of 3x? It seems like if multiple front rings are a necessity, 2x is a bit of a compromise when a 3x provides a wider range. Weight diff is negligible. Maybe not cool? Then again, it seems anything with a front derailleur isn’t cool anymore! Not bashing 2x–I actually ride one now and it’s great–but there are times I wish I still had a 44T ring. Just seems like the reasons for going 2x over 1x actually make 3x an even better choice.

WheelNut
WheelNut
5 years ago
Reply to  Jason

I think a lot of people don’t want to setup a triple, or they have been told they don’t want to set up a triple because it is supposedly difficult. I really like triples personally. I’m putting a Tiagra triple on my all-road bike this spring and my MTB has a triple (don’t ride MTB a lot though). Q factor on triples is a bit worse, so that’s a bit of an issue. Also if you come upon something you didn’t expect on the trail and need to quickly drop gears shifting the front is slower than shifting the rear, so that can be a bit troublesome. I just hope we continue to have the options available in the future so we can all spec our bikes to what we personally prefer.

WhatchyouKnowAboutEthic
WhatchyouKnowAboutEthic
5 years ago

Shots fired! 1x for life.

Loki
Loki
5 years ago

FWIW I think Shimano’s marketing and the ‘wish I still had a 44T ring’ type of lament misses the real world numbers. I know – cycling is a lot about feel, and super low cadence is great in fast, rough downhill sections, but a 36x11T gives you 40km/h at 90 RPM and 50km/h at 108 rpm on a 29er. Those numbers jump up to a cadence of 95 and 113 for a 27.5; high but not unreachable. (all calc with 2.1 tire ).

A 34×11-46T setup will give you a speed range of 2 -32km/h at a cadence of 70-80 rpm, except for 34x46T which is 2kmp/h at 20 rpm! Or we could make like Mr. Gwin, who can win a WC downhill without a chain…

+1 for Mark L’s comment, spot on.

Dylan
Dylan
5 years ago
Reply to  Loki

Guess I’m living in an alternative universe where 26″ wheels and steep hills exist. I’m running 26″ on my commuter, usually with skinny slicks, and ride some downhills where the speed limit is 70km/h and actual traffic speed closer to 80. The most aggressive tuck won’t get me to that speed in time to claim a lane, and it’s a narrow road with no shoulder.

My bike originally came with 7spd 11-28 and 26-36-46 way back in 1991, and later swapped out the big ring to a 48 (and later still 9sp 11-32, still on the same cranks and big ring). I now have a 3×10 groupset with 24-32-42 and 11-36, and miss being able to mash the top gear I used to have.

Next stop for me will be a compact road double and drop bars to get my big gear back, and the MTB triple and flat bars will go in the shed until the next loaded tour.

JBikes
JBikes
5 years ago

Shimano would do better creating a viable 2×11 rear hub (planetary 2 speed hub with room for an 11-spd cassette) than convincing mountain bikers that 2x via a FD is desirable.

I never had an issue with my XT level FD. But my greater need for a dropper post and good ergos killed whatever insignificant benefit a FD gave me on a mtb.

2x mtb drivetrains were required when rear cassettes were single digit in count and max tooth count was 32. Those days are over.

J-dog
J-dog
5 years ago

Shimano has jumped the shark.

Nigel
Nigel
5 years ago

Shimano obviously don’t understand percentages, a single ring with a 11 46 cassette has a 418% range no matter what the chain ring size. The table in the article gives 4 different percentages.

Chris Killer
Chris Killer
5 years ago
Reply to  Nigel

^this

JBikes
JBikes
5 years ago
Reply to  Nigel

Yeah…in their defense it seems they have fallen victim to incorrect use of significant digits, although their math on some of the 1x calcs is flat wrong: 3.27/.78 is NOT 4.36!!!
Against their defense, wouldn’t you quickly notice this given all 1x should be the same on the same cassette as you stated.

I didn’t even check the 2x because really, who is even using that stuff 🙂

Adam
Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  Nigel

Can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find someone making this comment. Some really, REALLY basic math failures in that table. I’m automatically mistrustful of a website that can’t do basic math.

Top to bottom, the values should be 418% for all four 1x setups, then 518%, 529%, and 541%.

hjb1000
hjb1000
5 years ago

IMO 1x drivetrains are great in a race context- they provide most of what you need in a light, minimal package. It’s no surprise that elite athletes love to use 1x!

But for average Joe mtber who might be using their bike for general mtbing, touring, commuting etc, 1x drivetrains ARE limiting. 2x just makes more sense when you ride your bike in a diverse range of settings.
I’m actually running 2×11 M9000 XTR with a 11-32 Ultegra cassette as I prefer the closer ratios instead of 11-40/42/46T. Also anything other than the top tier cassettes are ridiculously heavy…

OriginalMarkV
OriginalMarkV
5 years ago

Yes, that is precisely how Mavic and Shimano explain the holes in their product ranges. I still work in the PNW.

Beaker
Beaker
5 years ago

Shimano’s front shifting rules. I want and apprecite having the option. Just make a wider ratio double with a 42 or 44 outer, like those great 10s chainsets.

mike
mike
5 years ago

Yep, that 2% difference between a Shimano 11-46 and an an Sram 10-42 is really killing me, no wonder Shimano is circling he drain!

Ripnshread
Ripnshread
5 years ago

They launched the new DA for 2017…doesn’t that mean new XTR for 2018? Hopefully…for them it seems.

carbonfodder
carbonfodder
5 years ago

I still happily run Shimano 2x and will continue for the foreseeable future. Why? Because I have the range I want and moderate steps in between every gear. Yes, a 1x setup gives you the range, but look at the size of some of the steps! I would much rather have 17 usable gears with around a 15% step between each than have 11 or 12 usable with 25% between each. I like to pedal in a defined happy cadence, and 1x steps put me outside that happy place. I am significantly faster with small steps, so I am staying 2x.

JBikes
JBikes
5 years ago
Reply to  carbonfodder

Try it. The jump from a 36 to 40 tooth cog is small than the jump from 17 to 19 tooth cog.
The 11-46 XT cassette has basically the same gear spacing as the 10 spd with a slightly larger jump from the 37t to 46t cog.

People always comment about big jumps but in reality the math doesn’t really pan out. IMO, the only real downside to 1x is absolute range, not gear steps. One has to choose either top end or low end. Most rec riders are wise to choose the cassette and chainring based on their lowest utilized 2x gear. Top end loss is typically only felt on road section between trails if that an issue, although in flatter areas of the country I can see where this is more a concern.

Again, try it, but don’t be ashamed of 2x if you like it.

preston
preston
5 years ago

I love steep technical climbs so I need ultra low gears (15.2″) but I definitely don’t want to give up being able to cruise on the pavement or fast fire road to do it, especially for the cost of 150 grams. But while I prefer Shimano derailleurs I still need to run a SRAM 10-42 to get the range I want even in 2*11, so there is still that hole in their product lineup. I do find it dismaying that so many of my fellow riders have chosen 1*, as it is now getting almost impossible to find burly trail bikes that will accept an FD, one reason I did not upgrade to the new E29. I feel like if you don’t have the low gears, then you can’t climb gnarly trails, and so then no one builds gnarly climbs into trails. We have had a trail building bonanza here in the PNW but none of the new trails include gnarly climbs (unless you go up the obviously designed dh trails) in fact the opposite, so called “climbing” trails are all the rage. This really dismays me as most of the people I ride with even those who crush me on the smooth put to the foot as soon as things get interesting, and that is the real tragedy of 1*.

Andrew Spaulding
5 years ago
Reply to  preston

I think you’re trying to establish a correlation between gears and the desire to tackle technical uphills. 1x drive trains should be optimized for the low end. Nobody runs a 1x expecting to race down smooth fire roads. If your riding buddies are bailing at the sight of the switchback on silent swamp then tell them to downsize their chainrings or get fitter!

Frank
Frank
5 years ago
Reply to  preston

I think this is more a result of new trails being built to be more sustainable. Those steep technical climbs we love are easily eroded and aren’t stable.

mike
mike
5 years ago
Reply to  preston

You can run a Sram 11spd cassette in a Shimano drivechain, completely interchangable.

bedampft
bedampft
5 years ago

When will people understand that there is a bigger picture? Let me give you hint:

– Most sportbikes sold in Europe/Germany have 2x drivetrains and are around €1000,-. Most Sportbikes in Asia are equipped with 2x and even 3x Drivetrains. Why? Because the style of riding done is another than in the US
– 5% of all bicycles sold in Germany are Mountainbikes
– 1% of all bicycles sold in Germany are Roadbikes
– Most bikes sold are City/Touring/Trekking and Ebikes.
– Most of those (except Ebikes) cost around €150 to 200,-

Firstly, nobody cares for the 5% Mountainbikes and even less for the <0,5% Enduro and Trailbikes, on which a 1x Drivetrain does make sense. Most people buy one, single allround-kind of bicycle. And a 1x drivetrain on an Enduro is not quit an allrounder.
Shimano never has made any kind of money with either Dura Ace, XTR or Saint. Those Groups exist to showcase what is possible, and what customers can expect in a view years when they are buying a Deore equipped Mountainbike, 105 Roadbike or Touringbike with Deore.
Shimanos biggest moneymaker is the Tourney and Acera Gruppo, thats were the cash is made.
So if Shimano has a bad year, it's not because of that minor part the highend Mountainbike stuff is playing. Same goes for Sram, or any Carcompany, Apple, Samsung, and so on. Money is made with the cheap stuff, and people buying "cheap" have other desires then people buying the highclass, showcase parts.

Marc L
5 years ago
Reply to  bedampft

While I can’t speak to the specific numbers, you make some good points. That said, high volume/low price parts may account for a large percentage of unit sales- but profits are another thing and the mid-to-high end and aftermarket sales are where most companies make the bulk of their profits. Given that the context of the promotion is enthusiast mountain biking I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to limit our focus to that market.

What I have seen is that 1x systems are fantastic for new riders – both on road and off. They’re less concerned about some mythological biologically perfect cadence than about simplicity and ease of maintenance, both of which singles deliver in mountain, road, and commuter settings.

Further, singles offer product managers great value- someone above asserted the 1x drive trains are more expensive than doubles, which is demonstrably untrue at a given level from both a BOM and assembly time perspective. Coming back to the enthusiast mountain market, I suspect that most riders would understandably be willing to accept a small range reduction for less weight, lower prices, or spec upgrades like dropper posts or (hey Germany! ) suspension lockouts.

There are lots of opinions, but a lot of 1x resistance seems to come from those who haven’t tried it. There are a few who go the other direction, but that simply isn’t where the bulk of the enthusiast mountain market is headed- and it’s my opinion that insisting otherwise doesn’t help Shimano in terms of either sales or credibility.

TheFunkyMonkey
TheFunkyMonkey
5 years ago
Reply to  Marc L

Mark L is the voice of reason… All of your comments on this topic have been spot-on. Thank you for your contributions.

lop
lop
5 years ago
Reply to  TheFunkyMonkey

Marc L for prez.

JBikes
JBikes
5 years ago
Reply to  bedampft

And yet the gear advisor seems built specifically for those 5% of mountain bikes. So someone seemingly cares.

bedampft
bedampft
5 years ago
Reply to  JBikes

Sry, i should’ve been more specific. Shimano, obviously, cares. The problem are bike companies putting 3×7/8/9/10 drivetrains on beginner and entry bikes. Heck, there are some german brands who put RS Recon Forks with QR Axles on Mtb’s in a pricerange between €800,- and €2000,-. Only to have either a cheap hardtail with a XT drivetrain or a heavy carbon bike with a cpl. XT Group. Back when SLX was introduced, and Shimano told “LX is now specifically for Touring an Citybikes only” most Brands still put the new and shine SLX drivetrain on there Trekkingbikes.

Sram just isn’t available on cheap bikes, same goes for Fox Forks and Shoxs for instence. Bikes need to have a certain price point to be Sram equipped, and thats not the cheap side of the scale.

Frank
Frank
5 years ago

With that said, commuter bikes is really where 1x needs to be applied. 1×9 has been great on my commuter, and would be even better for a less experience cyclist who doesn’t understand shifting as well or may not do a good job with maintenance.

Dylan
Dylan
5 years ago
Reply to  Frank

For commuters in places with hills that average 12% and hit 16%, not so much. Big gear for the downhill, and small gear for the uphill = 2x FTW.

mech9
5 years ago

one thing shimano’s marketing people should have probably edited out is the slow motion shots of absalon’s bike and CHAIN KEEPER. According to their DCE, wave (except all teeth leaned inward), and what now their 3rd try at making a front chain ring? (narrow wide) their own marketing says “this technology eliminates the need for a chain retention device”. Really? So then, why does the greatest world cup rider have one on, while he’s just out sessioning some trails?

During a world cup race I get the insurance a chain keeper would provide when you are racing the most important races of your life, but out just riding around shooting slo-mo video for a brand in which you are telling people how great 1x is. Seems like someone in marketing should have said “maybe we should take that off”.

TurtleUp
TurtleUp
4 years ago

Admittingly in the minority here and will say that the 2017 Shimano 2x MTB is surprisingly smooth so much so that when I first got it, I could not feel the shift in the front and had to look down to make sure it moved. Was racing down hill and and needed to do a quick transition to a very low gear navigate up the next steep, but short uphill and the 2x won me over. The trails where I live are rocks and roots and more rocks and a lots of transition from downhill to a technical uphill in very short amounts of time. Not having to click through a whole segment of gears to transition feels more fluid.

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