Vroomen, Kessler Announce Open – New Mountain Bike Company from Cervelo Co-Founder

looks like squoval and BBright. l
Are they going to do a VWD ultimate frame like with cervelo, or is it to soon to say?

Not sure I want to buy a bike from a company that doesn’t understand why bigger wheels are heavier… seems pretty obvious to me…

Hi Louis, definitely not the same manufacturer/distributor/vendor relationship, although that’s not necessarily the point of our venture. The design might not be too far off from your wish list.

a, I don’t say that 29er wheels are not heavier, but there is no intrinsic reason why the frames are that much heavier. Yes, chainstays are slightly longer, but that’s about it.

Craigsj, lighter is not that interesting to me, glad to see it isn’t to you either. For me it’s the least interesting part of the frame, although of course if you do everything you want to do with the frame AND it is light, I’ll take that over making it heavy. Anyway, we’re just getting ready for SeaOtter now, so I hope you like what you see there.

With regards to full suspension, there are definitely interesting possibilities there, and although it doesn’t carry over from road, it does carry over from mechanical engineering. And on top of that, the suspension design is one thing, everything else about making a full suspension frame work well does carry over (materials, layups, geometries, etc).

Hardtail 29er pool is at max capacity right now. I’m sure with no doubt that they can make one lighter than some out there….but….who cares? With probably 25 solid lightweight 29er frames on the high end already….where will “Open” be that others aren’t? Why are we going to buy a mtb from road bike guys? Especially something that’s nothing really new or could be all that innovative anyway….afterall…we’re talking a hard tail.

And in the states at least, I think we’re seeing more people end up towards that 5″ 29er/650b/26″ rig as their bike of choice that can do it all. Is a “lightest 29er” frame a selling point enough anymore to launch a new brand and to court new dealers? I think in reality, all doors for Open are closed.

Given their race credo., I’d think it would be rad to see an agressive 650b come out. Would go nice with Enve’s new hoops.

Sevo, there is no doubt that there are a lot of 29er hardtails. Unfortunately a lot of them fail, not so much in weight (as I mentioned before, it’s of limited importance and mostly an engineering challenge) but more in geometry. 29ers with 26er geometry or some variation dreamed up by a guy smoking crack.

There are also a few good ones, don’t get me wrong, and for example the guys from Niner show why they are Niner and not Sixer – they get it. But when you ride some of the other offerings, it’s shocking. It’s no wonder 29ers have a bad rep with some people with regards to handling, when you have silly things like 69 degree headtube angles.

Anyway, we modestly believe we can do better in some areas that matter. And we’re not looking to become big, so I’m not worried about how crowded the hardtail world is.

Niner Air Carbon or this.

How about a carbon 29er softail ?

Hi Lukee, thanks for your response but if you look at impartial industry data, for example from Riemer, and you would see that Cervelo consistently had the shortest dealer debt outstanding of the industry. Just compare that with the big guys who went from 90 days to 180 days to ultimately 365 days of credit, tying up stores and tightening the noose until they eventually take over the store and turn them into a concept store for them?

It would simply be impossible for Cervelo to have “ram it down your throat” tactics because it is a small player and shops would simply tell it to take a hike. When a brand only represents 10% of your sales, the store is in the driver’s seat, not the supplier. It’s a whole different story when one of the big guys is 80% of a store’s revenue of course, then the supplier is in charge. Which of course is why the big guys place bigger and bigger demands on the retailers, offer relatively poor margin, etc, compared to the small guys.

Anyway, in this case production volumes will be so low I doubt retailers will have any serious inventory to speak of. But please let me know how we’re doing a year in. All the best.

IJBCape – I don’t think you can go wrong either way, I like the Niner. Definitely ours will still be a bit of a wait, so if you’re in a rush I would advice the Niner.

Francis – Thanks, we’ll try to impress you.

Gilhooley – First the hardtail, then we’ll see. Ideally we’ll keep it at one model, but that doesn’t mean we’re not thinking about many other designs, that’s the nature of the beast.

Cannot wait to see the first pictures. Would be very interesting to get a first test-ride..

Gerad, thank you very much for seeing the 650b fad for what it is. I’m a mechanical engineer who used to wrench at a local bike shop through college and I would love to share with you how poorly executed all these new BB standards are, BB30, PF30, BBright, 386 EVO, BB90. The nightmares of beating BBright cups out of frames with mallets, the terrible tolerances and manufacturing standards and eventual creaks or deformations of BB shells (Cannondale was the biggest culprit). At the end of the day nothing was wrong with outboard bearing cups and Shimano gains much respect for supporting it. I wish the engineers and company executives could see how much trouble these poorly executed BB designs give their customers. The advertised year over year stiffness increases, the vertically compliant and laterally stiff talk, the exotic tube shapes, etc. it’s killing the community and hurting the legitimacy of the industry. I still shake my head at the ads that show low res screen caps on FEA software as if they’re doing something new, great I get it you bought or made a cool plugin for CREO. Coming up with different names for the same HR40 high-modulus and YSH60A products…etc. etc. I work with the stuff everyday. Consumers talk with their wallets and unfortunately will continue to buy brand XYZ because a 135 lb euro pro won a prestigious race using said product. I enjoy your blog Gerard and I think it’s very impressive that you take the time to address the comments on the site.

I wasn’t going to comment on this thread- as a British LBS staffer until very recently, a 29er hardtail is in no way of interest because the sales on the floor over here, and the bikes at races, are not 29ers. 99% are still 26″ and I think the UK and European market will not accept 29ers anywhere near as readily as the US has. Our industry is going in a slightly different direction (longer, lower, slacker 5-6″ full suspension bikes with 4-5″ lightweight XC racers with 26″ wheels). I think in the last 5 years I’ve sold only 4 29ers, all but one of those to people who wanted something to use like a hybrid, but a bit tougher.

However, what Mark D says about BBs is correct, and it’s a similar story with headsets. The consumer, and to an extent the bike shop staff member and mechanic, is totally baffled by all the new non-standards that are coming out and would much prefer to have one standard, or at most a couple, to work with. A number of consumers come into the shop (which is a big store) looking for the right BB for their frame and the consumer has no idea which they need. Even a lot of clued up customers. And then, with their being so many standards, the chances of us having the right one in if it’s not Shimano PF or external, are slim to none because there’s so much variation we can’t hold all the stock at once.

Headsets are even worse. While there’s a bike designer on here, it’s nice to have the opportunity to air that opinion and ask for Gerard to stick to standards that are going to be easy for the consumer to get hold of. I have a Giant with Shimano Pressfit and had to drive a hundred mile round trip to get a BB last time it died the night before a race and we couldn’t get one in in time (this was at a much smaller shop I used to work at. The little shops have it even worse). Consumers can live with a small reduction in stiffness in return for a frame accepting parts they can get at their LBS on a Friday night before a race or ride. Please, please consider this Gerard in your future designs.

@Luke and @Mark D – I agree with you that standard is a word which should not have a plural form, that’s the whole idea. That said, although there was “nothing wrong” with outboard bearings, the chance to double your BB stiffness (i’m talking in generalities here) by oversizing and increasing the width is too tempting.

For headsets, there are even more useless standards, truly baffling. It took 4 shipments before we received the correct one for our frame, because the supplier couldn’t keep their own variations straight! Anyway, we and our retailers will stock all those sorts of parts ourselves, as we can’t rely on them being easily available even though both the headset and the BB use common parts (BBright also fits BB30 bearings for example).