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First Look! SRAM Transmission Ends the Mountain Bike “Drivetrain”

2023 SRAM Transmission mountain bike drivetrain shown on a bike in a field
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After months of spy shots and speculation, the new direct-mount MTB rear derailleur is here. Far more than just a new mech, it’s an entirely new system called SRAM Transmission.

Three distinct versions — XO, XX, and XX SL — will come as complete groups, and it’s called a “transmission” because everything is interdependent in ways that current “drivetrains” are not. Meaning, with a drivetrain, there are lot of different parts from different brands with different tolerance stacks that could be used together. With a transmission, there’s no mixing or matching — it’s a complete group that’s optimized as a system.

SRAM Transmission Eagle drivetrain closeup view from rear
This and feature image c. SRAM. All other photos c. Tyler Benedict except as noted.

SRAM says (and we’ve all likely experienced) that at a minimum, variations in frames and dropouts have necessitated things like barrel adjusters and fine-tuning during setup. When you start mixing and matching parts across brands, small individual tolerance outliers add up to big differences from bike to bike. That meant parts needed a lot of built-in adjustability, particularly the rear derailleur.

But all those points of adjustment are only there to take up the slack between frames and components. So, SRAM designed a system that eliminated all of that slack and, thus, the adjustments.

Now the freehub body, cassette, and rear derailleur fit together perfectly, automatically and always. So, there are no adjustment screws needed because there are really no more adjustments needed. Just assemble it and it’s perfectly aligned.

But that’s just the beginning …

How SRAM Transmission Sets Up Differently

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur installation closeup

It began years ago with the UDH (Universal Derailleur Hanger), giving every frame manufacturer a single, well-defined design parameter for rear derailleur placement in relation to the cassette/freehub body. As bike brands updated their frames to use UDH, they were effectively giving their bikes a hanger-less design, and SRAM was busy working on a direct-mount rear derailleur that would take full advantage of that standardized interface.

Before we get too far, you’re probably wondering:

  • Yes, all of this new stuff is designed to be used as a complete system.
  • No, it’s not compatible with existing Eagle 12-speed parts save for the AXS shifters.
  • No, SRAM is not sorry for this — its goal was to create the best possible system.
  • All of the drivetrain parts are marked with “T-Type” on them to indicate compatibility.
  • In order to run Transmission, you’ll need to use the chainrings, cassette, chain, and derailleur as a group.
  • However, it uses new Flat Top MTB chains, which are compatible with Road Flat Top chains.
  • So, you can mix T-Type cassettes and derailleurs with current SRAM road 1x cranksets and drop bar AXS shifter levers for a mullet gravel drivetrain, as long as your road/gravel frame is UDH compatible.
SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur installation closeup

As with most SRAM launches, the new design brings plenty of new nomenclatures. Now, the derailleur’s “Full Mount” slides over the dropout in a “Hangerless Interface,” with the mounting bolt attaching from the outside and threading into an Alignment Plate between the inner mount and the frame.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur installation closeup

The Alignment Plate acts like a washer between the derailleur and the frame. Its knurled inner surface grabs onto the frame, while a smoother back allows for derailleur rotation in the event of an impact. The small prongs provide a range of movement used during setup.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur installation closeup

There’s no more B-screw to set its position, but there is a “Setup Key” with an A/B position for the Cage Lock that catches an intermediate point on the pulley cage.

This is used for initial installation only, but doubles as the normal Cage Lock pin for holding the pulley cage in an extended position for easy wheel removal.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur closeup details

Your frame’s design will dictate whether you use A or B, and it’s simply a matter of popping the pin housing out, flipping it, and snapping it back into place.

SRAM Transmission direct mount cassette installation closeup

Insert the wheel, thread in the thru-axle, and then shift the derailleur so that the upper pulley is aligned with the “Set Up Cog” (the one with the red plastic guide behind it). Now, with the derailleur cage held in the setup position, you install the chain, which has also been simplified.

Based on warranty information and its consumer interactions, SRAM found three main things that would end rides:

  • Bad or forced setup
  • Robustness
  • Shifting under load

SRAM says AXS reduced these issues by about 25% over cable-actuated systems by eliminating the cables and minimizing the need for limit screws. Transmission eliminates 66% of remaining tolerance issues by removing derailleur hangers and the tolerance variations those bring.

This left chain length as one of the very few areas left for user error, but now there’s an app for that. You could still set up the bike by putting the chain on the big cog and chainring and measuring and adding two links.

Or, you could measure your chainstay length, input your chainring size, and use the AXS app to determine the correct number of links.

Or, because SRAM knows every brand that’s UDH/Hangerless compatible, there’s a drop-down list of frames and you simply choose the bike you have, your chainring size, and it’ll tell you what chain length you need.

No more counting link overlap or pre-sagging your suspension to get the right length.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur installation closeup

Then you simply align the mark on the derailleur’s Full Mount with the mark on the washer plate and tighten the mounting bolt. There is a sequence to tightening, then loosening, then retightening the mounting bolt, but it’s easy and SRAM will have a full instructional video for it — and you only need to do that once.

After it’s set up, you can take the wheel on and off without affecting the derailleur’s position. But if you ever change chainring size or remove the derailleur, you’d need to set it up again to get the proper chain gap.

Your derailleur is now installed and perfectly aligned. No more B-screw, no more upper and lower limit screws, and no more using the trim buttons. Since everything’s position in relation to everything else is now standardized, it just goes where it’s supposed to and shifting is perfect.

SRAM Transmission

It’s also a much stronger system. By putting the rear axle all the way through it and supporting it with two mounts, it goes from a single-shear mount to a double-shear. And, it effectively lets the bike’s entire rear triangle act as a system rather than a collection of parts with weak links (i.e. hangers) in the middle.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur strength

How much stronger is it? Lots. You can stand on it. Or wreck on it. Or your bike can fall over on it. Not only is the Full Mount incredibly robust, SRAM made it strong enough to withstand any load it’s ever likely to see, and to do it over and over again.

And if you do smash into something and the derailleur rotates backward, you can manually rotate it back until the mark on it lines up with the alignment plate. Or just loosen the rear axle a bit and it should spring back into position on its own.

OK, but What if I Do Break It?

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur closeup details

It’s completely rebuildable. Well, mostly. The motor unit and inner parallelogram and lower knuckle are one piece. But, the three parts that are most vulnerable have replaceable parts or coverings.

The main body has replaceable “Skid Plates,” and the outer parallelogram is now two pieces, and both are replaceable. The bushings are contained in those parts too, so if you do wear them out and things get sloppy, just replace those and it should look and feel new.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur closeup details

The pulley cage is now removable without tools. Notice how there’s no bolt on the back of the cage’s pivot?

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur closeup details
Front to back: XO, XX, and XX SL pulley cages are all interchangeable.

That’s because it just twists out, with no tools required. This makes swaps quick and easy, and if you’re packing your bike for travel, just rotate it up and out of the way; there’s no need to remove the entire derailleur from the bike.

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur closeup details

All three models are completely interchangeable, so if you smash yours and need to replace it, you can use whatever your local shop has on hand.

Since the clutch’s spring is now fully captured on the cage, I asked SRAM how long they thought it’d be before we saw aftermarket options with oversize pulleys and SRAM responded, “Good luck with that.”

It’s not just the integrated clutch spring that makes it harder to imitate. SRAM has already given it a larger 14-tooth lower pulley, but it’s no ordinary pulley. It’s a “Magic Wheel.” Normally, the whole pulley rotates on its bearings like normal, but if something got stuck in its spokes and cage, the outer ring with the narrow-wide teeth can spin independently of the center so that the chain keeps moving and doesn’t jam up and break the derailleur.

SRAM Transmission inline cage rendered images

Lastly, the cage itself is called “Inline Cage” and is angled slightly so that it works with the parallelogram to keep the lower pulley aimed directly at the chainring as it shifts across the cassette. This, among other refinements to the chainrings and new chains and cassette, all help reduce noise and keep the system running more smoothly.

SRAM Transmission: XO vs. XX vs. XX SL

SRAM Transmission direct mount rear derailleur comparison

At launch, there are three levels of Transmission groups: XO, XX, and a new XX SL. Think of them as being for all-mountain/enduro, trail, and XC, respectively. XO has gradually become more of a high-performance, do-it all group, and this new iteration fully commits to aggressive riding.

The key differences in the derailleurs are materials and the amount of finishing work applied to weight-saving efforts.

SRAM Eagle XO Transmission direct mount rear derailleur
Click on any image to enlarge.

XO gets the least machining, particularly visible on the Full Mount cage (the part formerly known as the B-knuckle). It gets more robust Skid Plates and a stamped metal pulley cage.

SRAM Eagle XX Transmission direct mount rear derailleur

XX gets more machining, slimmer Skid Plates, and a CNCd alloy pulley cage with a slimmer hub on the lower pulley.

SRAM Eagle XX Transmission direct mount rear derailleur

XX SL T-Type derailleurs get the most machining, including a bit of material removal on the mounting bolt’s surface. Skid Plates are minimized, and the pulley cage gets a carbon fiber outer plate.

One last thing to note: The clutch’s damper force is stronger on Transmission derailleurs, so it requires more power to shift, making battery life slightly reduced.

SRAM T-Type Cassette

T-Type cassette

The new T-Type cassettes use subtle narrow-wide tooth profiles on most cogs along with well-defined ramps and shaping. The goal is to allow you to shift at any time, under any load, and have it execute perfectly and silently.

There’s only one cog with an odd tooth count number, and that’s the “setup” gear indicated by that red plastic insert, which is only there to show you which cog to use during the system’s installation. It’s not a noise damper, support, or anything else.

SRAM T-type Transmission mountain bike cassette closeup details

All the other cogs have even tooth counts and a narrow-wide X-Sync profile. The “wide” teeth aren’t as wide as on the chainrings, and depending on where they sit on the cog, they could have different or no wide shaping. This is to improve chain retention and shifting under load.

The other big factor in shifting improvement is the shift ramp shaping. They’re designed to support the chain and maintain constant contact and engagement even during shifts. They’re also there to ensure proper transfer of the outer plates onto the wide teeth, and vice versa.

If you happen to put the chain on in the wrong “timing” during setup, SRAM says it’ll just skip ahead in your first couple of pedal strokes to get the narrow-wide timing. But once it’s on and rolling, it will shift such that the outer chain plates land on the wide teeth, and vice versa. Combined with the super stiff Full Mount derailleur, you have a system that works together to provide seamless, robust shifting.

This leads to an important point: Transmission shifts slower than Eagle AXS.

Each shift is very intentional. If you tap the shift button several times really quickly, the derailleur will perform one shift at a time, pause for half a second, then execute the next shift. It’s weird, but it works. I’ll have a full ride report soon and cover this in more detail but suffice it to say you can shift at any time and it won’t hesitate, but you can’t just smash through five gears at once either.

SRAM T-type Transmission mountain bike cassette closeup details
T-Type XX cassette on left, XX SL on right.

Gone is the X-Dome one-piece machined steel cassette body, which was light but also ridiculously expensive.

The new designs mix machined multi-cog parts with separate cogs pinned into place. The XO and XX cassettes have different finishes but are otherwise the same. They both use a machined steel one-piece lower cluster for the first nine cogs. The 10th and 11th cogs are steel and are pinned to an alloy 12th cog, which is then pinned onto the lower cluster to create a one-piece unit.

The XX SL cassette replaces the 10th and 11th cog with alloy to save weight but uses the same machined-plus-pinned construction.

Can I Use the Transmission Cassette Without the Direct Mount Derailleur?

Transmission runs on a 55mm chainline (standard is 52 mm).

Since there’s no derailleur hanger anymore, the XD driver body’s end cap sits directly against the derailleur body, not a dropout, hence the “Full Mount” name.

This lets SRAM move the cassette outboard 2.5 mm to make up for that, so the relationship between the chain and cassette is (basically) the same as before.

This actually gives bike brands more chainring and tire clearance at the chainstay, but it means you’ll probably need to add more spacers on the drive side between the BB and crankset. It still uses DUB spindles and there’s nothing new about the bottom brackets, so any DUB BB will work.

Because of all this, the new cassette is incompatible with older drivetrains, mainly because it moves outboard and could (likely would) rub against the hanger, UDH, or dropout.

What About Super Boost Bikes?

At launch, there’s no 56.5mm SuperBoost crankset spindle. But you could add a T-Type chainring to compatible SRAM cranks on a Super Boost bike because it’s not the cranks themselves that are T-Type, it’s the chainring.

SRAM T-Type Flat Top MTB Chains

sram flat top mountain bike chains
Clockwise from bottom left: XO, XX, and XX SL Flat Top mountain bike chains.

The new Flattop mountain chains are SRAM’s strongest chains ever. XO has standard pins and plates, XX gets hollow pins, and XX SL gets hollow pins and cut-outs on the outer plates. XX and XX SL get their Hard Chrome finish for improved durability.

Yes, they look like Road Flattop chains, but no, you should not use a Road Flattop chain on this MTB group. For mullet gravel builds, use the MTB Flattop chain.

They come with 126 links and use a new T-Type Flattop Quick Link that, SRAM says, is definitely not meant to be reused.

SRAM told us that, technically, you’re not supposed to reuse any quick links, but let’s be real, most of us do. But SRAM likes to remind you again that you shouldn’t do that. The actual press-fit design aspect hasn’t changed, but it says it weakens a little when you release it, and you should just replace it with a new one. Also, the original Eagle 12-speed chain quicklinks shouldn’t be used on the Flattop chains.

SRAM Transmission Cranksets, Power Meters, and Chainrings

SRAM Eagle transmission cranksets

Each group gets its own crankset. Carbon cranks are effectively the same as before. XX is basically the prior XO with a foam core. XX SL is basically the prior XX with a hollow carbon arm.

Remember the AutoDesk story? Turns out that’s exactly how it designed the new alloy XO crankset. After inputting the criteria, AI spit out a few design options. SRAM sorted through those to find the design it liked and then optimized that for actual riding conditions.

The raised portion gets polished exactly where someone’s heel would rub it, keeping it looking fresh. More importantly, it’s very strong and very stiff, keeping with the trail-to-enduro vibe the XO group is aimed at.

All three come in 165/170/175mm arm lengths.

closeup of XX and XO chainring and integrated bash guards on T-Type cranksets

The new T-Type chainring tooth profiles are optimized for the new Flattop chain, so they are slightly different than non-T-Type chainrings. And they now use the 8-bolt direct-mount interface, not the 3-bolt. Chainring size options are:

  • XO: 30/32/34
  • XX: 30/32/34/36
  • XX SL: 32/34/36/38

They also have T-Type chainrings for Bosch, Brose, and Shimano Steps e-bike systems, as well as their own T-Type e-bike cranksets.

SRAM XX T-Type cranks with new bash guards on chainrings

Both XO and XX cranksets come with integrated bash guards on the chainrings. They’re removable and positioned only where you need them. They’re model-specific and chainring size-specific.

closeup of XX and XO chainring and integrated bash guards on T-Type cranksets

The XO bashguards have backing plates, but the XX ones save a bit of weight by bolting directly together. Fortunately, the heavier stamped XO chainring and the more heavily machined XX version (and XX SL) are all interchangeable between any of the cranksets.

closeup of XX SL Quarq power meter chainring on T-Type crankset

SRAM will have two power meter options for Transmission. Not shown, the XO/XX cranksets both have left-side spindle-based power meters available, either as a complete crankset or as a left-only upgrade for an existing group.

The XX SL group gets an integrated Quarq power meter spider with new thread-on chainrings. It’s a clever design that allows for quick chainring swaps (a special tool recommended and available, but … you can probably do it with a chain whip).

closeup of XX SL Quarq power meter chainring on T-Type crankset

Once twisted on, a set screw prevents accidental loosening. It uses a replaceable CR2032 battery good for 200 hours of run time and connects via ANT+ and Low Energy Bluetooth. Standard direct-mount 1x chainrings will also be available, either sold separately or as part of the crankset.

All three of the power meters will connect with its Flight Attendant suspension too, so there’s no need to add an additional cadence sensor to use its auto-adjusting suspension.

SRAM AXS Pod Controllers

SRAM Transmission shifter pods

The only part of the new groups that’s cross-compatible are the new pod shifters — meaning, you can run these with Eagle AXS and you can run AXS paddle shifters (Road, MTB, Blips) with the new Transmission derailleurs. Anything that could be controlled with AXS remotes (Reverb, etc.) will work with these too. They come in two versions — standard and deluxe — and with two different mounts.

The direct-mount clamps directly to your bar, with a slim band that should fit into any cockpit setup. The Matchmaker mount attaches to SRAM’s brake lever clamps and provides a wider range of lateral adjustment than the two-position system of the originals.

SRAM Transmission shifter pods

The standard Pod has fixed concave button pads. The Deluxe version has removable buttons with both concave and convex pads; mix or match to create the exact tactile experience you want. You can also flip them left to right, rotate them independently of the mount’s rotation, and assign the buttons to do whatever you want via the AXS app.

The Pods’ pairing button does still work as a trim button, which is great for setting up AXS groups, but SRAM says it’s unlikely you’ll ever need to use it for Transmission groups.

SRAM Transmission Actual Weights

SRAM Transmission mountain bike XO crankset actual weights

Remember the three reasons SRAM gave for making this group? Weight wasn’t one of them. That said, it’s all respectably lightweight.

All cranks measured are 175mm lengths. The XO crankset comes in at 667 g plus 81 g for bash guards for 748 g complete.

sram transmission mountain bike XX crankset actual weights

The XX crankset is 542 g with 53 g bash guards, 595 g complete.

sram transmission mountain bike XX SL crankset actual weights with power meter

The XX SL crankset with power meter and 34-tooth chainring is 550 g.

I didn’t have a standard chainring to weigh, but at just an 8g weight gain to add a power meter, there’s basically no penalty beyond cost.

sram transmission mountain bike derailleurs actual weights

Cassettes range from 449 g for XO to 419 g for XX SL. Batteries add 25 g.

sram transmission mountain bike cassette actual weights

XX and XO cassettes are nearly identical at 382 g and 381 g. Somehow, I didn’t weigh the SL cassette but will be adding this later once I do. Claimed weight is 345 g for XX SL cassette and claimed weight for XO/XX is 380 g.

sram transmission mountain bike chains actual weights

Chain weights are 282 g (XO), 274 g (XX) and 264 g (XX SL).

sram transmission mountain bike shifters actual weights

Shifter Pods are 35 g each. MMX mount with brake lever clamp is 35 g, and the standalone mount is 1 2g (47 g – 35 g).

SRAM Transmission Pricing & Availability

price list for all SRAM Transmission components and options

Prices above are for individual standard components, and below are for complete groups and chainrings.

price list for all sram transmission groups and chainrings

All SRAM Transmission parts start shipping at launch in March 2023. Expect immediate availability on complete bikes and separate aftermarket availability very soon. Basically, if you have a bike with a UDH hanger on it, it’s compatible.

SRAM.com

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83 Comments
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Wayne
Wayne
11 months ago

The key word here is PROPRIETARY.

Merlin the Bike Wizard
Merlin the Bike Wizard
11 months ago
Reply to  Wayne

That’s been the bike industries motto for the last 20 years. There was a glorious time in the lights when there was near universal compatibility save whatever the Italians were doing because Campy gonna Campy. But companies turned away from it in pursuit to please Mammon. Now we even have proprietary kickstands because that made sense to some slug in marketing. Microshift, SunRace, SunXCD, and to a lesser extent, Box, serve the people. Shimano and SRAM won’t be getting any of my money. I’ll continue to run 9 speed friction with Co-op bought parts and Microshift until the end.

Branko
Branko
11 months ago

Same with me. I removed SRAM Axs from all my bikes and went back to friction Microsoft with 11 speed XT derailleur. I m not moving further anymore. It just doesn’t have sense to spend money on something like this at all. It won’t last anywhere close as friction will, doesn’t look as cool and it’s definitely heavier. Plus this thing of battery management is just a crap I don’t want to deal anymore.

Mark
Mark
11 months ago

But is’n everyone trying to pleas Mammon?

FritzP
FritzP
11 months ago

Looks promising! Glad to see rebuildability of the expensive rear der.
What are the cassette cog tooth counts? Is there more even spacing like the XTR?
BTW, Under the pics of weighing the ders on scales the word cassettes is used.

Danny
Danny
11 months ago

Pricing chart: The article indicates the “transmission” is an all-or-nothing assembly. So having individual component pricing might be good to know for repair costs, but would be best if there was a complete transmission cost listed also.

FritzP
FritzP
11 months ago
Reply to  Danny

Group prices are at the top of second price list picture.

Dockboy
Dockboy
11 months ago

This design philosophy – make it all work as well as possible, mixing be damned – is pretty good for riders within the intended market, but I still really want a robust drivetrain that I can mix and match for drop and flat bars, a la 9-speed Shimano or 10-speed SRAM.

marcus
marcus
11 months ago
Reply to  Dockboy

yeah, same, both from a rider’s perspective and from a shop perspective. The new shimano groups look like they will deliver on this: all the 10s work together, all the 11s etc

Brian
Brian
11 months ago

$600 for the SL cassette…

FritzP
FritzP
11 months ago
Reply to  Brian

$100 to $150 for the CHAINS!

Tom Wenzel
Tom Wenzel
11 months ago
Reply to  FritzP

GX is still alive.

Why stare at the Ferrari when your Camry works just fine?

Glen Abraham
Glen Abraham
11 months ago
Reply to  FritzP

Bear in mind, that, although the intended chains are specific to the newly developed ‘system’, as before, and where single chainrings are supreme, nitriding and hard chrome became necessary because of the implicit extreme chainlines. As such, it’s new AND exclusive.

Kilowatt
Kilowatt
11 months ago
Reply to  Brian

Gone is the X-Dome one-piece machined steel cassette body, which was light but also ridiculously expensive.

And it’s STILL $600. Jeez.

Mitch
Mitch
11 months ago

It’s great to see that Sram is reducing brand’s abilities to allow manufacturing tolerance to ruin aspects of the shifting. Now the only thing left to worry about is Sram’s manufacturing tolerances.

K.M.
K.M.
11 months ago

I see a lot of positive aspects here but I cannot help thinking out loud also that there used to be (at least) two kinds of fun with bikes: riding them and tweaking them according to personal preference with different components. And that the biking industry has been lately doing a good job in killing the latter.

Tom Wenzel
Tom Wenzel
11 months ago
Reply to  K.M.

You seem to forget that SRAM offers, oh, about 500 other component pricepoints to meet your budgetary needs. When a SRAM sales person is at your door forcing you to buy XX SL at gunpoint, do let us know.

Johnny
Johnny
11 months ago
Reply to  Tom Wenzel

I dont think km touched on pricepoint as a complaint…so your rebuke is really kinda odd. Was it supposed to be a burn? For those that like to tinker on their bikes…the industry at large is seemingly and increasingly going to great lengths to ensure very little cross compatibility between components across and even within the respective brands… so it is limiting that ability to tinker, customize, and also at times creating hurdles to source replacement parts in a jam. But hey, purportedly a selling point of this drivetrain is that you can jump up and down on it so obviously you’ll never need to replace it.

George T Fleming
George T Fleming
11 months ago
Reply to  Johnny

Price is a point. Pricepoint is redundant. Price is right. I think you get the point.

It used to be two words, wrong though it was. Making it one word compounds the foolishness.

Ashok Captain
Ashok Captain
11 months ago
Reply to  Johnny

Nice, well reasoned post.

Just a thought – the claim that the rear mech unit will not break might be true, but a sudden lateral impact to a carbon frame might snap the seatstay – chainstay junction. Hopefully this won’t happen to anyone. Cheers.

Fitness
Fitness
11 months ago
Reply to  Ashok Captain

Right if an impact to your seat stay is going to break it, then it breaks that has nothing to do with a derailleur. The new der is supported fully by the axle on both sides of the frame so the through axle would also have to break to do any frame damage due to a der strike. If the axle breaks you did something crazy. Cant say I’ve ever seen a TA break before unless a bike got run over by a car

K.M.
K.M.
11 months ago
Reply to  Tom Wenzel

Tone down your aggression. Others’ reviews of your comment should have already made it clear why it’s particularly called for in your case.

Joe
Joe
11 months ago

Anyone like how sram blew the cover of the new Epic. Look at 4min 47 seconds

Joe
Joe
11 months ago
Reply to  Joe

New article, happy to help! or at least that’s the way I’ll believe it. but good chance you figured it out without me.

Other guy
Other guy
11 months ago

Love it, I think this is progress and pricing seems comparable. What are we looking a half pound weight increase?

I’m going back
I’m going back
11 months ago

Not a single picture of the actual derailleur on an actual bike?

Pao
Pao
11 months ago

$1300 for the cheapest “transmission”? At least I should be able to stock up on the “obsolete” 12sp components at a decent discount while all the fanboys spend their money on this….

Kyle
Kyle
11 months ago
Reply to  Pao

That’s how every new generation of groupsets work. We’ll get a GX version in a year or two for sub-$1,000.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago
Reply to  Kyle

Generations have been interoperable for decades. The trend of forcefully removing backward compatibility is relatively new.

Eric
Eric
11 months ago

Yeah, I don’t know about this, especially on a $2200 transmission: “Each shift is very intentional. If you tap the shift button several times really quickly, the derailleur will perform one shift at a time, pause for half a second, then execute the next shift.“

If I suddenly need to dump five gears, I don’t have 2.5 seconds to think about it.

Brian
Brian
11 months ago
Reply to  Eric

If you need to suddenly dump 5 gears, then you were probably weren’t going to make the climb anyway. The fact that you can shift under full power means you don’t need to do the gear dump ahead of the climb anyway, just let the shifts happen while you attempt to grind up the sudden climb you weren’t looking far ahead enough to see.

nowtoday
nowtoday
11 months ago
Reply to  Eric

It’s amazing Nino Schurter won the wold cup with it! Or maybe it’s better than your perception of the article would sugest

Dirt McGirt
Dirt McGirt
11 months ago
Reply to  nowtoday

To add to Brian’s point, Nino knows how to shift properly. To conflate the skills of some rando internet consumer dude with a world champion that’s been on the item in question is about as near-sighted as it gets.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago

What sucks most about this trend, is even the ‘entry level’ mtb stuff is insanely expensive. People like me a completely cut out from the eco system since you have to commit a couple of grand just to get your foot in the door.

Tom Wenzel
Tom Wenzel
11 months ago

Remember the good ol’ days when the AXS rear derailleur battery was included?

Here’s what’s written on my supplier’s website on the SRAM X0 Eagle T-Type AXS Rear Derailleur product page:

Note: SRAM AXS Battery Sold Separately

Billyshoo
Billyshoo
11 months ago

RIDICULOUSLY detailed, in-depth coverage!! Thanks, Tyler!!

Ashok Captain
Ashok Captain
11 months ago
Reply to  Billyshoo

+1

Tony Pep
Tony Pep
11 months ago

TLDR

Johnny
Johnny
11 months ago

Cue somebody to let the air out of a balloon or play the trombone: wah, wah, wahhhh….

These “transmissions” should be adequate for those who replace their bikes every couple of years. However, it pains me to see the track records of many of these aging electronic components and can’t help but believe they are all prematurely destined for the landfill.

Will these systems even be supported in 5 years time when it’s replacement is developed?

I honestly hope that every single one of these systems is still in commission for decades to come but it’s hard to believe that this will in actuality come to fruition.

zlMark
zlMark
11 months ago
Reply to  Johnny

Do remember as this editorial pointed out SRAM will allow us to change out parts as we wish. Don’t really feel they will leave us hanging.

Shafty
Shafty
11 months ago

So they didn’t add any new gearing options, or additional sprockets, it’s not backwards compatible, AND it shifts slower? Who thinks that sounds good? If your frame doesn’t have a UDH hanger you can’t even use it. All this because the only way they could get decent front shifting is with electronics.

Why did they create UDH? To lock in consumers and product managers. Don’t let anyone convince you they ever had consumer interests in mind. I’m over Sram and I’ll continue to recommend other products whenever possible.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago
Reply to  Shafty

I would guess for most people that being able to shift under load has more real-world implications than being able to shift a fraction of a second faster.

Also – people have been saying for years that there should be a single universal derailleur hanger design….. Sram comes up with one and you complain about it? ‘Yeah…it was waaaaaay better when I had to determine my hanger type, order it at my shop/online, and wait a week for it to arrive…’

Ed LLorca
Ed LLorca
11 months ago
Reply to  Andrew

this isn’t universal. This is SRAM proprietary.

hmmm
hmmm
11 months ago
Reply to  Ed LLorca

Except any brand RD will fit on a UDH

Dano
Dano
11 months ago
Reply to  Ed LLorca

Did someone find a way to fit a Ferrari engine into a Ford? Technology and proprietary components go hand in hand. No one is forcing you to ride SRAM; as a consumer, you have options.

Branko
Branko
11 months ago
Reply to  Andrew

My friction shifter works perfectly under load, plus I can change all 11 speeds in one pull under load. It cost just 30 USD, works on 6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 speeds.it’s lighter also. Don’t need to change or charge battery on it and it will last another 100 years or so.

will
will
11 months ago

2700usd for the most expensive combo, lol.

between
between
11 months ago

You mention the ability to run sram 1x road cranksets with a Transmission rear end for a mullet gravel set up but there is the new 3mm wider chain line on the Transmission system. Aren’t things going to be 3mm out of line if you mix and match then?

Tyler
Tyler
11 months ago
Reply to  between

Not possible to mix-and-match cranks from road groups, so the “mullet” refers to use of drop-bar AXS shifters, not a road crank/MTB cassette setup.

Merlin the Bike Wizard
Merlin the Bike Wizard
11 months ago

No der hanger? So smash your derailleur into a rock and damage your frame and TA? Super smart. I don’t trust SRAM as far as I can throw them. I have worked in and out of the industry over the last 10-15 years and I warrantied more SRAM products than anything else. Between this and Shimano Cues nonsense, I am solidly in camp Microshift.

Ed LLorca
Ed LLorca
11 months ago

This appears to be so much stronger than hanger setups that there may be no frame damage from der crashing into rocks. The der will take the hit and then we buy spare parts for the der. In theory at least. We’ll see how reality works out.

Shafty
Shafty
11 months ago
Reply to  Ed LLorca

They say it’s rebuildable, but the part most exposed isn’t available. We went from a system with a sacrificial component, to directing the stress into the dropout. The cage can be replaced, but external impacts hit the body not the cage. They’ll sell you the scuff plates, although that seems to be driven by aesthetic damage.

Deputy Dawg
Deputy Dawg
11 months ago

No 28t chainring?

whatever
whatever
11 months ago

Youtuber Peak Torque (who’s a mechanical engineer) did a quick video on this, and he pointed out obvious problems with this SRAM approach. Like the bike industry tolerance or lack thereof, damage to the frame, what a derailleur hanger does etc .At these prices, I would not consider them in the first place, but I’ll go with the mechanical engineer on this over SRAM marketing. Not to mention that SRAM has a history of less than ideal development, and not supporting legacy products (lots of people were hung out to dry on the first gen eTap).

Tim
Tim
11 months ago
Reply to  whatever

You’re right. SRAM doesn’t have any mechanical engineers that work for them that could have assisted on this product. Let’s take the advice of some guy on YouTube.

whatever
whatever
11 months ago
Reply to  Tim

Your response counterpoints nothing. All you are seeing here is marketing, and not engineering. Go watch his video, and maybe you will understand the issues. If you want to buy it, knock yourself out, but there’s a very good chance it won’t work well for you due to many factors, not the least of which is that bike manufacturer’s inability to produce frames within their own poor tolerances.. But I’ll go with the guy not trying to sale me a ridiculously expensive groupset.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago
Reply to  whatever

Wait….so Sram is supposed to Engineer something, then have their engineers convince you to buy it? Marketing is how stuff sells….how you communicate the message to the customer. Marketing without a product to back it up is one thing, but unless you can prove that Sram didn’t have a mechanical engineer work on this (Hint: you can’t) then YOUR point is moot.

Heck, I’m a mechanical engineer too – I think the solution makes sense. Professionals disagree with each other all the time. Just because PeakTorque has a youtube channel and some video where he slags something doesn’t mean he’s right.

whatever
whatever
11 months ago
Reply to  Andrew

Mis-represent much? Never said the engineers were doing marketing. Nor did I ever make a claim as to whether mechanical engineers work on this, but carry on with your mis=representations. As what is presented is, marketing, it will gloss over potential issues, and as per their job, make it as positive as possible. That does not mean there are no issues, and Peak Torque called out those issues. It remains to be seen, if those are in fact significant, though IMHO, the alignment problem due to bike manufacturers being lousy at hitting spec (they have trouble making round wholes for bottom brackets for goodness sakes), and the fact this new SRAM product transfers shocks to the frame instead of a sacrificial part, are real issues. Combine that with SRAM’s history of first releases having issues, and the very high price, and it’s not a good combination. Yes professionals disagree (high level science background here) and is normal and how ideals are refined and developed. The public rarely understand this process. As for PT, yes he has a youtube channel, so what? Does reach lots of people. That has nothing to do with the validity of his concerns. Though you imply that because he has a channel that he is wrong.. Just because he has a youtube channel does not mean he’s wrong.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago
Reply to  whatever

Your initial message implies that the dude at Peak Torque is right and Sram is wrong….because he’s a mechanical engineer, and the message from Sram that you’ve heard is Marketing. ALl I’m saying is that OF COURSE its marketing. Marketing is the mouthpiece for Sram’s engineers.

All I’m pointing out is that Sram has a team of engineers making products…..the fact that you have a very vocal YouTuber (who is an engineer) doesn’t mean that he’s right….nor does it mean that he’s wrong…..although admittedly he’s already backtracked a lot of his initial criticisms in the comments section of his video….seem like a lot of his Hot Takes were just that….its not like he’s had his hands on these components yet.

whatever
whatever
11 months ago
Reply to  Andrew

I saw this morning that he had put out a follow-up, but I have not watched it yet. My initial comment about PT being a mechanical engineer was simply to show that he has some basis for his comments. As for SRAM, of course they have engineers, but all that was here was marketing. But beyond that, it is common for engineers to design what they are directed to do, or is released before the engineer thinks it is ready due to marketing/time constrains/budgets/market windows/marketing/ etc.

Dano
Dano
11 months ago
Reply to  whatever

@andrew PT should reconsider his opinion. Search “It took a 1,342 mph fastball to break SRAM Transmission” on YouTube. The Fanatik guys prove that the fears of damaging frames are unfounded. You “may” bend a UDH if you really try (as they do), but this has not shown to affect frame structure at all.

K.M.
K.M.
11 months ago
Reply to  Dano

It seems you should watch those videos again, especially PTs. Who, being a skilled engineer and overall smart guy, clearly would not accept the Fanatik guys’ glances at the frame after the hits as proof that there is no damage to the frame. Engineers do it quite differently. The Fanatik video does a pretty good job in showing the durability of the derailleur and the hanger – not else.

whatever
whatever
11 months ago
Reply to  Dano

A 1342 mph fastball is something close to Mach 2 at sea level. I HIGHLY doubt they have the means to launch a ball at nearly twice the speed of sound. Was there a sonic boom?

Doc Sarvis
Doc Sarvis
11 months ago

Call me old fashioned I like my bikes electric and my shifting mechanical.

mark Hagen
mark Hagen
11 months ago

Everything except the shifter gained a lot of weight (every part is about 100grams + over what old AXS 12sp). I might just get the shifter for the weight and ergonomics and let the sram-guinea-pigs/customers sort out the faults listed below over the next year and sram to silently correct/update.
I bet some XC-weight weenies will do the math and opt for the older 12 speed. The bash guards as an excess example, i ride in the east coast and on almost every ride you have to traverse over a log an have yet to ruin a chain ring since i moved her 10 years ago, yet some serious thought, expense and over design efforts went into those things.

pocky
pocky
11 months ago

Just what I always wanted, a drivetrain that’s completely useless if my frame gets bent even one iota.

Kyle
Kyle
11 months ago
Reply to  pocky

Plenty to be wary of here with this system but what you’re describing is what happens when you hang a derailleur from a lever, aka a traditional derailleur hanger.

This is the opposite, it ensures that the derailleur is square to the axle and cassette, regardless of manufacturing tolerances or damage elsewhere on the bike.

Andrew
Andrew
11 months ago
Reply to  pocky

If your rear axle is no longer concentric with your cassette then you have bigger problems than your shifting.

Ed LLorca
Ed LLorca
11 months ago
Reply to  pocky

if you bend a frame you got bigger problems…

nowtoday
nowtoday
11 months ago
Reply to  pocky

If your frame is bent that much a through axle isn’t even going back in

SomeGuy
SomeGuy
11 months ago

This is a great concept and I look forward to future mid-level versions. For now, I’m just not crazy enough to jump both feet into a kit that’s gonna cost me $100 every time I need to replace a chain. And you damn well better replace your chain reasonably often, cuz replacing that cassette is gonna start at $400.

Exodux
11 months ago

What if…auto manufacturers didn’t innovate and just kept producing cars with gas guzzling, smog emitting engines, 2 speed automatic/ 3 speed manual transmissions, no safety features such as crush zones, air bags and better seatbelts and didn’t work with better materials and aerodynamics and things to make driving more pleasurable?

I see this as a evolution. This technology will trickle down eventually and the derailleur hanger will be on just about every bike sold.

Shimano isn’t innocent of new parts making the former parts obsolete either.

I remember all the comments with disc brakes on road bikes, now its hard to find a road bike without disc brakes

Steve Grunlan
Steve Grunlan
11 months ago

SRAM has always been a very innovative company. The wireless electronic shifting was a game changer. However, there are a ton of frames that will not be compatible with the universal derailleur hanger, so not only will you need to commit to a completely new drivetrain, but may need to buy a completely new 10K bike to get something with the right frame and full transmission. I think this will delay a lot of potential buyers from moving to this platform in the short term.

Tyler
Tyler
11 months ago
Reply to  Steve Grunlan

SRAM is OK with that, they still sell groupsets made for derailleur hangers

zlMark
zlMark
11 months ago

To me the biggest deterrent will be the price. Got my 2022 AXS bike a short time ago and had the bike been priced with the 2023 AXS it might have changed my mind. Best editorial on SRAM’s electronic shifters I’ve seen yet.

David
David
11 months ago

I’ve had two bikes recently with electronic drivetrains and while the novelty was nice I don’t actually enjoy using them, so I won’t be in a rush to buy this or whatever Shimano bring out as a response. As for the comment of never needing to adjust anything for manufacturing tolerances…. All I can say is I hope Sram have improved their quality control significantly.

Tim
Tim
11 months ago
Reply to  David

Why didn’t you enjoy using them?

David
David
11 months ago
Reply to  Tim

Primarily a tactile issue, but I also found my Sram 2x system was too slow and clunky and my Shimano 2x system the buttons were too small.

Ves
Ves
11 months ago

Thank you for excellent presentation.
It was about a time that somebody replace Tulio’s glorious invention.

Kilowatt
Kilowatt
11 months ago

How can you tell when your cage is bent since it comes that way?

robert balu
robert balu
11 months ago

This is great for (semi)pro, but not “avg hobby bikers”. It’s expensive & proprietary, but sure there’s gonna be “opensource alternative” in a ~1-2 years and similar systems from competition including hydraulic instead electric actuated, or wire as fallback (activated via some switch) so you won’t get stuck…

Danna
Danna
11 months ago

Does anyone know if the Eagle Transmission chainrings will fit on Force AXS 8 bolt cranks?

Mathias
Mathias
11 months ago

Why on Earth SRAM does not develop comercially available floating front chainring on crank to get more efficiency during pedaling on crossed chain? This is where we want to see some progress.

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